# Pumping a few Amps for a 100usec

I like to pump 4-5A to a high power LED for 100usec. My system has only 3.3V battery, this 100uSec high power event takes place once every 10sec.

What is the best way of doing this without upsetting the batteries?

UPDATE

The answer below is very good however I am looking for a schematic I can use and test out. Also, after more research, I am slightly changing my requirements and adding a bounty.

Requirements:

• Battery: Li-ion
• Current 5A
• Pulse Duration: 100uSec
• Pulse Rise time <100nsec
• Minimum time between pulses 10msec
• Pulses are controlled with a 3.3V IO GPIO from a controller
• Voltage drop across LED is 3.5V, ideally I like to be able to put 3 or more in series (10.5V voltage drop)
• Datasheet to the LED

Bonus question

If you have a better LED recommendation with a large angle that is in the invisible range, please let me know.

Update 2

I have implemented this project, it works well except the leakage current. No matter what I tried, I couldn't get rid of the leakage. I tried a few types of opamps add a pull down to the output of the opamp etc. I end up turning off the opamp to cut the leakage, it works but not very neat. I would be happy to hear what experts think of the situation.

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What type of battery? –  stevenvh Apr 13 '12 at 7:18
Just for curiosity: why do you need to pulse a high power LED for a so short time? –  clabacchio Apr 13 '12 at 7:46
@clabacchio I will take a picture in that time.. it is an infrared flash –  Ktc Apr 13 '12 at 9:20
@stevenvh li-ion rechargeable battery. energy capacity unknown at this time. –  Ktc Apr 13 '12 at 9:21
Awesome! I'm also curious about how you will take the pic :) –  clabacchio Apr 13 '12 at 10:01

This is the most efficient way I can think to do it. There's a MAX1682 charge pump to give you 6.6v at the super capacitor. The voltage doubler is pretty efficient, probably more then 90%, but they can't supply huge currents. But what's the average current?

5A * 100us / 10s = 0.05mA.

That's well within the MAX1682's 45mA spec.

From a brief look at the datasheet, I couldn't see any reason it wouldn't work with such a large capacitor for C2.

Thanks to Russell McMahon for advice about charge pump efficiency. It looks like an inductor based solution would be more efficient, but would require more components. Take a look at something like MAX17067. This also has the benefit that it can produce the higher voltage required by three LEDs in series. I'll add it to the schematic tonight.

Now the important bit. You'll notice that there's no current limiting resistor. The current limiting will be performed dangerous open-loop style by the MCU. You'll have to get this right by calculation or trial and error (or both).

By supplying PWM to Q2's gate, you will be able to use the inductor as an efficient current limiter. But you won't get a very reliable current this way. It may not matter hugely, as long as 1) sufficient power is delivered to the led in 100us, and 2) the LED's current limit is not breached.

Here's a simulation I did in Altium. I used a 5uH inductor (not the 10mH shown in the schematic). And I supplied PWM with 12us on time, and 3us off time to the gate. I didn't use the 100uF capacitor, just a fixed voltage source instead. So you could expect some current droop.

Red is the current in amps, and blue is the PWM signal. You can see that you get close to 5A within 20us, and stay pretty close to it after that.

If you want better current regulation, then you can add a sense resistor, and use it to feed back to the MOSFET.

Here we have a 0.5ohm current sense resistor. At 5A, this should give us 2.5v to the comparator negative input. This is compared against the value from the pot. If the current is too high, the comparator switches off, and vice versa. The switching speed will vary depending on the hysteresis of the comparator. If the speed is too high, then you can increase the hysteresis (and decrease the switching speed) by adding a few hundred k resistor between the comparator output and its + input.

Note: You must use a high speed (<0.1us propagation delay) comparator with open drain output. You might look at the LMV7235 which is available from Farnell for about one pound.

The circuits above assume only one LED. If you still want to use 3 in series, you can use two MAX1682s to give you 13.2v.

Also, many thanks to Telaclavo for his advice on this.

OP has stated:

• He wants a very fast rise time on the current
• Not interested in efficiency
• There will be a single pulse, or two pulses 80us apart, then a long pause
• Wants a simple, robust circuit

Here is a circuit which is a linear current regulator. This is only feasible because the duty cycle is very low. This circuit will likely over-heat the transistor if the duty cycle is too large.

Thoughts:

• A high voltage from the MCU or 555 will switch on the LED. A low voltage will switch it off.
• Set the current using the voltage divider, or put in a pot so that it's adjustable. Or use a digital pot or DAC so the MCU can vary it.
• In the schematic, the current is set to 3.3A. You can set it to whatever you want.
• I drew only one LED, but it's meant to represent three LEDs.
• If you use only a single LED, then set the boost regulator's output voltage lower accordingly.
• I suggest a 555 based pulse generator for safety reasons, so it would be fairly hard to leave the current on
• You could also make it safer by choosing a boost regulator which has a current limit. So, even if the flash is left switched on, the regulator would just limit the current anyway.
• I cannot say what the switch on time will be. This will depend on the inductance of your wiring.
• You should lay out the PCB carefully to avoid EMI.
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Be careful, the Q1 you drew has its source on the left (connected to C2). Real-world silicon MOSFETs have a parasitic diode that goes from S to D, so Q1 will always conduct. Even if you flip it horizontally, it will be difficult to turn it on, because none of S and D are ground. There are other issues, too. Too late here. I'll comment tomorrow. –  Telaclavo Apr 23 '12 at 0:07
@Telaclavo - I have updated the schematics. I hope they are correct now. Please let me know what you think. –  Rocketmagnet Apr 23 '12 at 9:12
1) The LED cannot stand 5 A for more than 100 us. With these topologies, it is impossible to provide just a short pulse (5 A, 100 us) to the load. 2) Your 2nd schematic (the one with the comparator) does not provide a PWM signal to the PMOS. The PMOS might end up not switching, but partially on, making it dissipate too much (given the 5 A rate). 3) 5 A through RSENSE would mean 12.5 W on it. –  Telaclavo Apr 23 '12 at 10:41
@Telaclavo - Whoops, yeah. I forgot to add a signal from the MCU in the second one. –  Rocketmagnet Apr 23 '12 at 11:05
@Telaclavo - 12.5W on the resistor for only 0.001% of the time = 0.125mW. –  Rocketmagnet Apr 23 '12 at 11:06

That's an average power of

Power = 5 A $\times$ 10.5 V $\times$ 100 $\mu$s / 10 ms = 0.525 W.

Average power is easy for almost any battery. You just need a store to accomodate the pulse.

A capacitor that will "droop" say 0.5V in 100 $\mu$s needs to be

C = I $\times$ t / V = 5 A $\times$ 100 $\mu$s / 0.5 V= 1000 $\mu$F.

A supercap would do well here if voltage rating is OK.

E&OE

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What is "E&OE"? :) –  abdullah kahraman Apr 13 '12 at 11:52
Why would a supercap be better than an ordinary electrolytic? –  Federico Russo Apr 13 '12 at 11:58
E&OE = errors and omissions excluded. (a generic disclaimer) –  Madmanguruman Apr 13 '12 at 12:53
@FedericoRusso - A supercap liable to have a better discharge capability for it's capacity. This may not be universally true but tends to be. –  Russell McMahon Apr 13 '12 at 14:14
@RussellMcMahon It does tend to be true, but there are enough variations in supercaps that you must read the datasheet to be sure. Some s-caps are designed for RTC backup, with lower leakage and higher series resistance. I have seen some s-cap makers that have charts that show cap value on one axis and series resistance on the other. This makes it really easy to figure out which product line to use. –  user3624 Apr 13 '12 at 15:23

A Joule thief may be the answer to your problem: it's a sort of boost converter, where you open a circuit with an inductor in series to create a high voltage. Since the power is delivered by the inductor, you don't have to supply the current directly from the battery.

You have to tune the circuit to feed the LED with the proper current when the voltage goes up.

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Interesting.. A solution just using a Cap would be probably much more easy to manage. –  Ktc Apr 13 '12 at 9:26
maybe, but I don't see how you would ever regulate current using just capacitors. –  Jason S Apr 13 '12 at 11:06
@Ktc the problem is that you (presumably) have a fixed load, so the way to give it a big current is to cause a big voltage; that is the work of the Joule thief. The other chance, as Steven says, is that store the charge in a capacitor and then switch it. But depending on the LED you are using, the voltage may not be sufficient –  clabacchio Apr 13 '12 at 13:01

Consider the effective series resistance involved and loss in power transfer. at Worst case max input levels

• Surge forward current tp = 100 μs
• IF=5A Vf=3.5 Nom!!
• IF=1A Vf=2.0 Nom 2.5 Max.
• If=0.2A Vf=1.5 Nom

also from the LED specs compute ESR [mΩ]

Vf ... If[A]... . . . delta V/delta I

• 3.5 . . . 5
• 2.8 . . . 3 . . . 0.7/2 => 350 mΩ
• 2.0 . . . 1 . . . 0.8/2 => 400 mΩ
• 1.5 . . . 0.2 . . . 0.5/0.8 => 625 mΩ
• 1.1 . . . 0.001 . . . 0.4/.2 => 2000 mΩ

(crude estimate of ESR)

• ESR drops dramatically as current rises.
• You want a power source with Cap and switch ESR < ~10% of 350mΩ = 35 mΩ.

Now go find a suitable low ESR cap and switch total.

Maybe decouple the battery ESR with a choke to limit current within its specs. and use suitable fusing to prevent failure to battery.

• These are low ESR $0.40 switches < 15mΩ with 10V drive 35A [FDD8778CT] • THese are low ESR$0.40 Caps ~7 mΩ CAP ALUM 68 uF 16V 20% Thru-hole
• Pick a bigger uF value as needed.

Assuming you can manage Charging Li-Ion batteries choose 4x 3V cells for 12V across the LED and Series Switch above to ground.

You can drive with 5V or better 12V so transistor to amplify 3V out to get 12V out to drive MOSFET to get 5A from 3 LEDS 11.5V, with 0.5V drop from 12V Li Ion source. You ought to design the overall current limit with ESR of the string plus added resistor to optimize value i.e. 0.4V drop @5A < 100 mΩ non-wirewound resistor.

Cap goes across Li-Ion Battery string with perhaps a microfuse and ferrite choke inserted for good practise.

Can you run the PIC from the lowest Li-Ion Battery in the string @ 3V? with 3x LEDs from 12V with 12V gate drive and 5A controlled fused Pulse to LED's

Got the picture? I have no schematic tools here. I could sketch on a napkin for you how to connect the dots.

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The cap link is not working. Tony would you mind suggesting a circuit to do this. –  Ktc Apr 25 '12 at 15:51
search.digikey.com/us/en/products/EEE-FP1E471AP/PCE4440TR-ND/… Panasonic EEE-FP1E471AP –  Tony Stewart Apr 25 '12 at 16:17
If you prefer thru hole Caps search.digikey.com/us/en/products/RR71C680MDN1/493-3715-ND/… here is one that is 7 mΩ and in stock cheap. Use the Digikey filters to sort by ESR , Stock or price and select range of ESR, voltage and uF as desired.. lots of solutions in stock –  Tony Stewart Apr 25 '12 at 16:22
Tony, thanks for this. However I am not advanced enough to grasp some of these without a schematic or high level block diagram. That is why I kindly asked for a circuit so that I can better discuss. –  Ktc Apr 25 '12 at 16:40
What is overall comm channel rate and distance? Application? –  Tony Stewart Apr 25 '12 at 17:27