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I'm working on a project to school where I'm designing a battery charger with battery status indicator, and I found this circuit online:

figure1

but to include it in the project, I must explain how it works and how I got the values for the components. Well, I could just say I found it online, but I really want to understand how it works and how I could have designed it if I hadn't found it in the internet.

I know it works based on using the op-amps as comparators, when the tension is higher on the - input of the comparator, it will connect the output to GND, but how do I calculate the formulas for the tension divisor net that connects to the op-amps? Also, I don't understand the Zener, I never knew much about zener diodes... I understand that the pot gives a calibration functionality for lets say, deciding whats the battery full charge status, although I will probably experiment and change it for a fixed value resistor.

Also, the resistors connected to the LED's were too high, whats an acceptable value for connecting it to 24V ? I want the current to be low as this is supposed to measure the battery charge status, not drain it... also, I don't need the LED's to be too bright.

Other than this, I would like for the last level LED to blink when it reaches the <21V status, how can I achieve this? I was thinking 555 timer with reset connected to the 2nd level, can this work?

About the charging part, I was thinking about using this circuit:

figure2

Who can help me with the circuit connected to the lm317 adj pin?

Thanks guys

EDIT:

I have made some changes to the circuit after your awesome answers. I've got to a point where i understand how the circuit works, but i still have a few doubts about this. figure3

It has been said that D1 is a shunt regulator and not a shunt reference, what are the implications of this statement, and what will happen when building the circuit? Because It works when simulating, as you can see.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ There are so many questions here. Please break it down into separate questions so that users can answer each discretely and not write a thesis to solve all of your problems. \$\endgroup\$
    – horta
    Commented Jul 11, 2014 at 15:04
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    \$\begingroup\$ yeah i know, the thing is the questions kept coming to me as i wrote the post, i was to ask only about how to calculate the resistor ladder, but the questions just kept coming... sorry about that \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 11, 2014 at 15:20
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    \$\begingroup\$ FWIW, this is a pretty crufty charge indicator. The (outdated) comparators have no hysteresis and dropping the battery voltage down to the 6V range wastes energy. \$\endgroup\$
    – Matt Young
    Commented Jul 11, 2014 at 15:30
  • \$\begingroup\$ Vcc max for a bipolar 555 is 18V. \$\endgroup\$
    – EM Fields
    Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 17:50
  • \$\begingroup\$ How did you arrive at the values for R2, R3, R4, and R5? \$\endgroup\$
    – EM Fields
    Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 19:32

5 Answers 5

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I see two glaring errors:

  1. The Zener is a 1N4735A, and is specified as having a Vzt of 6.2V +/-5% with an Izt of 41 mA through it.

With 6.2V across the string comprising R2, R3, R4, R5, R6, and with R2 set for minimum resistance, the current through the string will be 459 microamperes. With R2 set for maximum resistance, the current will be 264 microamperes.

With the Zener dropping 6.2V and the battery at 24V, the difference between them (17.8V) will appear across R1 (4700 ohms) and the current through R1 will be 3.79 milliamperes.

Then, with the current through the string at about half a milliamp, worst case, the current through the Zener will be a little over 3mA, nowhere near the 41mA it's supposed to be for it to predictably meet its voltage spec.

for 41mA through the Zener and half a milliamp through the string,

R1 = E/I = (Vbat-Vzt) / (IZt + Istring) = 17.8V / 41.5mA = 428.9 ohms.

430 ohms is a standard E24 value and would work, but it'll dissipate about 739 milliwatts, so at least a one watt resistor should be used.

  1. The red LED will always be on since the voltage across D7 will never rise to a level sufficient to cut off its (the red LEDs) current.

EDIT

Modifications to the schematic from electroschematics.com follow, and the LTspice circuit list is here if you want to play with the circuit.

CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION:

The resistor string connected between the junction of R20-D1 and ground is a voltage divider designed to output 3.5 volts, 3.83 volts, 4.17 volts and 4.5 volts when driven by the LM4040-5, a 5 volt shunt reference, and these four voltages are used as references for the non-inverting inputs of U1A, B, C, and D, which are the four open-collector differential voltage comparators comprising an LM339.

The comparators' inverting inputs are driven by voltage divider R6-R7, which is connected across the battery, and as the battery voltage varies between 27 volts and 21 volts, the output of the divider will vary from 4.5 to 3.5 volts with this correspondence to the battery voltage:

     Vbat  Vdiv
    -----+------
      27   4.50
      25   4.17
      23   3.81
      21   3.50 

That way, as the battery voltage falls from 27 to 21 volts the output of the divider will fall from 4.5 to 3.5 volts and, as it goes less positive than each of the reference voltages on the comparators' inverting inputs, the corresponding comparator's output will go high, turning off the LED corresponding to that battery voltage.

Initially, with the battery fully charged, the plan is for all of the LEDs to be ON, and then, as the battery is discharged, for the LEDs to turn off, one at a time - in thermometer code - until the battery voltage falls below 21 volts. At that point the battery will be entering deep discharge, and D5 will flash - your clever idea :) - about once per second - as a warning - for as long as the battery remains in deep discharge.

The flashing is accomplished with U2A - half of an LM393 - wired as a gated astable multivibrator with a nominal logic LOW output keeping D5 ON, the flashing being enabled by U1D's output pulling U2A+ to ground when the battery voltage falls to 21 volts and below.

The unused half of U2 is spared out by shorting its inputs and output to ground, as shown, and each of U1's comparators is provided with enough hysteresis - generated with ten megohms from output to non-inverting input - to stop its output from chattering as its inverting input moves slowly through the switching point.

D1 was originally a 1N4735A, a 6.2 volt 1 watt Zener diode with a specified test current of 41 mA, but was changed to an LM4040-5, a 5 volt shunt reference requiring much less operting current and sporting better accuracy.

In order to determine the value of R1 required for a 5V instead of a 6.2V input to the string, knowing the voltage drop across R5 and its resistance, the current through R5 was calculated by using Ohm's law, where:

    I = E/R = 3.5V/10.5kR = 333.3µA.

Then, since the current in a series circuit is the same everywhere in the circuit, the value of of R1 was calculated, again using Ohm's law, from the drop desired across it and the current through it:

    R = E/I = (Vzener - 4.5V)/333.3µA = 1500 ohms

Next, knowing the current in the string to be 333 microamperes, D1's quiescent current was chosen to be 1667 microamperes, for an abitrary sum of 2 milliamperes through them both with the battery at 24 volts:

    R = (Vbat - Vz)/It = 19V/2mA = 9500 ohms

10k is a very common E24 value and will result in the current through D1 falling to 1.67mA, which won't affect its output voltage at all, so 10k it is.

Other than that and the new shunt reference and R1, the hysteresis, the flasher, and getting rid of one LED, the circuit remains the same as the original.

enter image description here

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Thank you for your positive input, about the first part, i dont know if it actually works, for i have only simulated the circuit, not actually tried it, but what you say makes sense. I will change the IZt in the diode's parameters. About the red LED being always on, i noticed it, and i actually eliminated the red LED from the circuit and included a 555 timer subcircuit to alternate the red led between full on and blinking. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 8:58
  • \$\begingroup\$ After doing a little research, it appears that D1 was designed to be a 1 watt shunt regulator rather than a shunt reference, and is wasting way more power than it needs to just to ba a reference for the string. I've got some errands to run right now, but I'll edit my answer sometime later on today or tomorrow with suggested design changes to the original. \$\endgroup\$
    – EM Fields
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:30
  • \$\begingroup\$ I mentioned something similar to what you state as a comment to Majenko's answer above. I must have looked in the wrong location in the datasheet because I thought Iz = 1mA. Still, it was a very obvious problem. \$\endgroup\$
    – sherrellbc
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 20:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ It's only obvious once you've been taught the trick... \$\endgroup\$
    – EM Fields
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 22:12
  • \$\begingroup\$ Alright, that is something new, really, i had never thought of that... what does that actually mean? i'll have to change the diode to another 6,2V zener? i did some changes on the circuit and i simulated them and everything seems fine, could not changing the diode give me problems when actually building the circuit? \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 8:19
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The zenner limits the input voltage to the resistor ladder to 6.2V. The resistor ladder divides the voltage up into discrete steps for comparison.

For each step sum the resistors above and below, then use the 6.2V as the input voltage (\$V_{IN}\$) to the standard voltage divider formula: $$V_{OUT} = \frac{R_2}{R_1 + R_2}V_{IN}$$

\$R_1\$ is the sum of the resistors above the step point, and \$R_2\$ is the sum of the resistors below it.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ The choice of components surrounding the zener is confusing to me. If you look at the datasheet, 6.2V knee voltage is typical of 1mA. Current through the 4700 Ohm resistor is 3.8mA. Yet, the resitive divider (assuming the pot = 0) has a load resistance of 13k Ohms. As such, the divider path draws a mere 477uA. Therefore, 3.8mA - 477uA = 3.3mA through the zerner. Certainly with 3x the knee current the voltage will not be 6.2V (typical of 1mA). And with the potentiometer in place it only gets worse as more resistance is added. \$\endgroup\$
    – sherrellbc
    Commented Jul 11, 2014 at 15:32
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The potentiometer appears to me as a way to adjust the clamped voltage by adjusting the current flow through the resistive path. More current through the zener diode and the voltage will raise a bit, less current and the voltage drops. It's likely used as an adjustment to fine-tune the reference voltage seen at the head of the resistive divider.

For a rough approximation of the LED current you'll have:

$$I_D=\dfrac{V_S-V_D}{R} = \dfrac{24-2.5}{22k} = 977uA$$

Simply solve for R given a desired current:

$$R =\dfrac{V_S-V_D}{I_D} = \dfrac{21.5}{I_D}$$

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Since the Zener voltage is supposed to stay constant with moderate load variations, the change in current through the Zener due to the change in resistance of R2 will be negligible. What R2 is really doing is being a rheostat varying the current through the reference string. \$\endgroup\$
    – EM Fields
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:11
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About the charging circuit: The circuit connected to the ADJ pin controls the output voltage of the LM317 regulator. The output voltage is 1.25V above the voltage at the ADJ pin, which is set by the R3/R4 divider. R2 and Q1 are used to limit the output current. When the voltage across R2 is high enough to turn on Q1, Q1 pulls down the voltage on the ADJ pin and thereby reduces the output voltage.

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"EM Fields" said according to the data sheet of 1N4735A that uses Izt=41mA for testing, he found there was problem with the value of R1 (4.7kΩ) that limits the current to about 4mA.

The value of Izt used in the compilation of data sheet is a choice of the company. It just tells reader that the data are gathered under such a condition. Some data sheets of zener diodes use Izt as low as 5mA.

For a zener diode to conduct, a current of a few mA is what is required. Especially when the load draws only 1/10th of the zener current, the zener diode will do its job charmingly. Of course, with a few mA zener current, the voltage regulated maybe at the lower end at 5.9V. With the load only drawing 0.27-0.46mA, the zener should regulate at its typical voltage.

I really see no problem with this part.

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