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For example at room temperature (20ºC) the saturation current is 450mA and with 100ºC the saturation current is 350mA. What causes this?

(Edit) The higher inductance with higher temperatures and lower currents is my biggest question here.

This is a graph for a power inductor. The original video is here: Temperature influence of the saturation current for an inductor

Saturation Current and temperature

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    \$\begingroup\$ Magnetic properties of materials causes that, this has details. \$\endgroup\$
    – jay
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 17:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ @jay Interesting catch for temperatures well below the curie temperature of a material -- spin waves! (And the Bloch law.) Thanks. I still have to absorb the new model, though, to see if it predicts the OP's presented curves or if something else is also needed. \$\endgroup\$
    – jonk
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 18:19
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    \$\begingroup\$ @jay can you explain it to him in 25 words or less? \$\endgroup\$
    – D.A.S.
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 18:24
  • \$\begingroup\$ @TonyStewartEE75 , I'd like to give you a chance to finish it in less than 10 words. \$\endgroup\$
    – jay
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 18:48
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    \$\begingroup\$ I can't give you a good answer. But in my experience EVERYTHING depends on temperature. It is very rare to find something that does not grow or shrink or speed up or slow down or increase or decrease with temperature. Most things which are not sensitive to temperature have been specifically designed to have that property. \$\endgroup\$
    – user57037
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 19:44

3 Answers 3

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This is mostly a solid-state physics question, but, to boil this down to something that we can answer without going into finesse of core material physics:

Magnetism happens when in a material, you can align the spins of electrons around their core (or more generally, the spin normal of any charged quantum) – in "normal" materials, these are totally randomly oriented, and once you've aligned a lot of the spin axes to point in the same direction, you get a macroscopically observable effect "magnetism".

The ability of cores to store energy energy depends on the "alignability" of these spins.

The hotter any material, the more random the movement, positions and orientations of the atoms inside; so, heating up material actively works against its ability to store energy in a magnetic field.

This, however, doesn't explain the opposite observation you have. To clear things up a little, I'd like to preserve the comment discussion below here, credits to @jonk there:

Domain walls are like soap bubble surfaces arranged to minimize energy. At low currents, the applied field mostly goes into modifying the walls so that the volume of bubbles that line up with the magnetic field grow much larger than the volume within the oppositely aligned bubbles. This is a smooth effect. But there is also a number of complications lumped together as Barkhausen and magnetostriction effects. Higher temperatures, at low magnetization currents, allow the bubble walls to snap more easily over these Barkhausen effect barriers.

So the remaining vacuum path length (the physical path length minus the net bubble path lengths) is a little bit shorter resulting in a slightly higher inductance. At higher currents, most of the bubble walls have done all the moving they can do, as well as all of the lumped Barkhausen and magnetostriction effects, and now the effect of temperature is to reduce the net aligned bubble volume because of all the excess continual jostling (unsettling of existing aligned bubble volumes.) These two extreme ends explain the opposing behaviors.

@Tobalt argues

At high temperatures, both magnetic exchange and magnetic anisotropy decrease. This leads to: a) reduced domain wall energy and b) increased domain wall width. Both lead to lower domain wall pinning, which in turn c) decreases coercivity d) increases the dM/dH, i.e. permeability

Helpfully, @jonk also links to the Feynman lectures chapter on magnetic materials. I'd like to cite one thing from that:

Summary: Magnets are complicated. Good luck on the exam.

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    \$\begingroup\$ There are some interesting details in the chart, Marcus. Note that the inductance is higher for high temperatures, at low currents, but this relative orientation flips over in saturation so that inductance is lower at high temps and higher currents. A simple, non-quantitiative interpretation of thermal agitation explains this behavior, as well. Can you expand your answer to address this aspect of the OPs chart? \$\endgroup\$
    – jonk
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 18:45
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    \$\begingroup\$ Domain walls are like soap bubble surfaces arranged to minimize energy. At low currents, the applied field mostly goes into modifying the walls so that the volume of bubbles that line up with the magnetic field grow much larger than the volume within the oppositely aligned bubbles. This is a smooth effect. But there is also a number of complications lumped together as Barkhausen and magnetostriction effects. Higher temperatures, at low magnetization currents, allow the bubble walls to snap more easily over these Barkhausen effect barriers. \$\endgroup\$
    – jonk
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 20:22
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    \$\begingroup\$ So the remaining vacuum path length (the physical path length minus the net bubble path lengths) is a little bit shorter resulting in a slightly higher inductance. At higher currents, most of the bubble walls have done all the moving they can do, as well as all of the lumped Barkhausen and magnetostriction effects, and now the effect of temperature is to reduce the net aligned bubble volume because of all the excess continual jostling (unsettling of existing aligned bubble volumes.) These two extreme ends explain the opposing behaviors. \$\endgroup\$
    – jonk
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 20:22
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    \$\begingroup\$ I second that this question pretty much belongs into solid state physics (with which the physics.SE unfortunately does not appear to be overly concerned with). Having worked long years in solid state phys I put forth that a good model of solid state magnetism has not been developed to date. there are countless models starting from Weiss, Stoner etc. and many more modern ones. None seems to hold for more than a fraction of situations and materials. So this general answer captures the essence well enough. \$\endgroup\$
    – tobalt
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 20:23
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    \$\begingroup\$ @jonk At high temperatures, both magnetic exchange and magnetic anisotropy decrease. This leads to: a) reduced domain wall energy and b) increased domain wall width. Both lead to lower domain wall pinning, which in turn c) decreases coercivity d) increases the dM/dH, i.e. permeability. \$\endgroup\$
    – tobalt
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 20:26
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At high temperatures, the thermal energy of the system is greater than the magnetic energy, EmJ. The Curie Temperature where the different magnetic domains cancel, and the relative permeability drops towards zero. and the energy stored cannot be increased so L collapse to zero, 0 not the magnetic flux. There is a thermal-magnetic equilibrium at this temperature. Heating up magnets to this temperature also demagnetizes.

In between absolute 0'K and the Curie Temp.,there exists a rate of change to temperature for any molecular magnetic domain structure that controls permeability \$\dfrac{\Delta M}{M}=k~ T^{\frac{3}2}~~~~~~~~~~\$ ref (31)

Magnetic qualities of charged particles have a complex interaction of forces that are maximized at absolute zero, 0'K and have zero magnetism at the Curie Temperature.

Air does not Saturate (yet)

This does not occur in vacuum of material excited by a wire loop, and we can neglect air as well for this application.

Transformer steels (Cold-rolled-grain-oriented-steel CRGOS) are usually 1.2 T up to exotic 1.9T (Est) while an air gap in 7 Tesla MRI can suck a metal folding chair across a cafeteria room at speeds up 60 MPH.

Anecdote from head of NRC (National Research Council of Canada) who reported to me in Winnipeg, on the capability of the world 1st non-magnetic (hydraulic) MRI for use in operating rooms

Take-a deep breath

An electron moving around a fixed point has an angular momentum. \$L=m_erv\$ which is also defined by the area and around a wire is excited by current per unit length.

The charged particles have a nuclear spin, like a spinning top that has a precessed orbit at a slower rate. This magnetic dipole moment produces magnetic flux and the magnetic force along the wire created by the electric charge flow rate or current. The energy of each spinning top is also an absolute permeability, and the sum of all tops is the net permeability of the material. The moments have distinct spin angles, discovered by Stern and Gerlach in 1922.

enter image description here credit

The rate of change of \$\mu_r\$ with temperature depends on the material type and gaps between magnetic particles and the ratio of insulation and conductive to the magnetic particles. Microwave has a higher ratio conductive/insulator material that creates the necessary equal gaps in ferrite magnetic particles. \$\mu/\epsilon\$.

The result is the knee of the curve where \$\mu_r\$ drops 10% is often used for the inductance at rated current. Above this in power ferrite, the margin to critical thermal runaway is the key figure of merit allowing aging of materials. This is where the rate of change of temperature rises above steady-state with a rapid loss of inductance and impedance as heat cannot be removed fast enough. This is because inductors are usually drive by switched voltage sources and cannot be switched with current sources unless actively sensed and limited.

Other Henries

Another odd fact is the domain walls of Quartz crystal (XTAL's as in oscillators) can have the equivalent inductance of more than 1 Henry, but the excellent insulation of Quartz creates a piezo effect, electromagnetic resonant vibrations with a tiny femptofarad "motional" capacitance. It cannot be saturated with current because between the domain walls values “Henry and fF” exists several kV, for a Xtal power with 10 uW that cannot be tapped. This is why Xtal powers are minuscule, as there is a breakdown voltage or flashover inside the crystal from molecular impurities.

Other Interesting Fact

If you notice for temperatures above room the Tempco is very small PTC then switches to NTC (bad) above 350mA yet saturates -10% around 450 mA . This means if your RMS current exceeds this a bit, you will run up to 100'C and close to runaway failure. A feature I added to a Lambda 1U 180W supply for my design for reliability was to epoxy a thermistor to the Ferrite XFMR to drive a small transistor to a LM317 to regulate the current in 2 fans in series off 48V, when it reached 50'C the fans started. At 60'C it would run at full RPM which would only happen in a 40'C ambient with my spoiler and plenum turbulent design so it never exceeds or even comes close to critical temperature.

**So for added reliability, include thermal ferrite sensing ** for current limiting or voltage regulation or temp controlled fans that normally don't need to run.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Good source @jay Now imagine the magnetic forces of a black hole \$\endgroup\$
    – D.A.S.
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 20:18
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    \$\begingroup\$ Sorry but many things are odd (or wrong) with this post: 1) Curie temp doesn't say anythiung about permeability, infact it is not negligible at the Curie temp. 2) superconducting solenoid magnets dont have airgaps, which is the sole reason for their large stray field and tendency to attract things. Magnets with cores and air gaps are rather benign because they have large field only near the gap and cant attract things from large distance. \$\endgroup\$
    – tobalt
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 20:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ I disagree but, feel free to make corrections but 1) Mz = N (γ ̄h)^2*J(J+1)Bo/3kT magnetization drops to a very low level where it cannot store any more energy, L=0 at Tc. 2) superconductors have a different equation for Mz and drops the latter parts, but not relevant here anyway. 3) MRI's like torroids leak a lot of flux like magnets, which also has nothing to do with the saturation property in this question. This 7 Tesla MRI imploded the images of all the CRT's in 7 floors above when operated inside a temporary Faraday Cage. (!) R&D, The key question is saturation vs T IMHO @tobalt \$\endgroup\$
    – D.A.S.
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 20:56
  • \$\begingroup\$ Antiferromagnets even have a maximum of susceptibility at the ordering temperature. The susceptibility drops off by a power law beyond that (but never reaches zero). For ferromagnets, the high temp drop off is similar. This is all described by the Curie-Weiss-Law: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curie%E2%80%93Weiss_law \$\endgroup\$
    – tobalt
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 21:02
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Question:

Why does inductor core saturation depend on the temperature?

Answer in 5 words:

Permeability depends on the temperature.

In general, permeability is not a constant, as it can vary with the position in the medium, the frequency of the applied magnetic field, humidity, temperature, and other parameters.


Temperature Coefficient Of Magnetic Permeability from: NIST Research Library archive

Corelation of magnetic field and current, Ampere's law: B = f(u * I)

enter image description here

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  • \$\begingroup\$ is that linear PTC or not linear NTC temperature. Everything! depends on temperature \$\endgroup\$
    – D.A.S.
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 21:02
  • \$\begingroup\$ +1 for Brevity -1 for vagueness. How about " \$\mu\$ drops by \$T^{3/2}\$" 4 words \$\endgroup\$
    – D.A.S.
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 21:14
  • \$\begingroup\$ @TonyStewartEE75 , " Everything! depends on temperature" , 4 words, you beat me! You are always amazing. What else do you see? \$\endgroup\$
    – jay
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 21:16
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    \$\begingroup\$ I get trolls like that always not I. Anyone with substance will explain a down vote \$\endgroup\$
    – D.A.S.
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 21:18
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    \$\begingroup\$ @TonyStewartEE75 , Gotta go. I have a job interview in 30 minutes. It is nice talking to you. And, we have built some trust, I guess. \$\endgroup\$
    – jay
    Commented Sep 3, 2021 at 21:26

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