# AND/NAND LED Flasher circuit help?

I've come across a circuit I'm not too familiar with:

(Goggle Drive version)

How do I tune R1, R2, R3, and C1 to adjust frequency and duty cycle?

I get the general idea of how it works, but I've asked 4 engineers that I work with already, and the only answer I get is "That's an old school approach, ask the other guy". I'd like a better understanding of how this circuit works - Any help would be appreciated.

• Remember this circuit will only work if your first NAND gate has Schmitt trigger inputs. – Doodle Jun 15 '17 at 14:42
• @Doodle it does not have them but the circuit works. Just not sure how to tune it. – Jedi Engineer Jun 15 '17 at 15:15
• I'm not quite sure how your circuit works without schmitt trigger inputs. Your output should be flickering all over the place using something like a 74HC00. Transistors answer tells you how to tune it exactly. – Doodle Jun 15 '17 at 15:27
• That's two of us. Which is why I posted... – Jedi Engineer Jun 15 '17 at 17:12

Initial conditions:

• C1 discharged so NAND pin 4 is high.
• This feeds back to AND pin 1 and since 2 is permanently high AND pin 4 goes high charging up C via the parallel paths of (R1 and diode) and R3.
• When C1 voltage is high enough NAND pin 4 goes low.
• AND pin 1 now goes low and C discharges through R3 only.
• Repeat.

The diode makes the waveform asymmetric. C charges through R1 and R3 but can only discharge through R3.

How do I tune R1, R2, R3, and C1 to adjust frequency and duty cycle?

• C1 charge-up time, $\tau_1$, will be given approximately by the time constant $(R1 || R3) \times C$. (where "||" is the parallel resistor value.)
• The discharge time, $\tau_2$, by $R3 \times C$.
• The total period of each cycle will be ${\tau_1 + \tau_2}$.
• The frequency will be $\frac {1}{\tau_1 + \tau_2}$.
• The duty cycle will be $\frac {\tau_1}{\tau_1 + \tau_2}$.
• The diode introduces a further slight complication in that there is a voltage drop across it. The effect seems to have been minimised by using a Schottky diode which has a lower voltage drop than a regular silicon diode.

The $V_{IH}$ level is 3.5 V, and the $V_{OL}$ level is 1.6 V. How does that change the equation?

It doesn't. I assumed the thresholds would be about those proportions.

Going from low to high C will initially be at 1.6 V and the charging voltage close to 5 V. Switching will take place at 3.5 V which is $\frac {3.5 - 1.6}{5 - 1.6} = 56\%$ of the way to fully charged. You can see from Figure 1 that this is quite close to the 63% value of one RC time constant, $\tau$.

Going from high to low C will initially be at 3.5 V and the discharging voltage close to 0 V. Switching will take place at 1.6 V which is $\frac {3.5 - 1.6}{3.5} = 55\%$ of the way to fully discharged. This time you can see from Figure 1 that this is not close to one time constant, $\tau$ but probably good enough.

Don't forgot that you will have variation from chip to chip.

Figure 1. RC charge / discharge curve.

Furthermore, what role does R2 play? I was presuming there was some discharge through it, at one point at least....

On power-off the NAND gate will have no supply. C will discharge through the input protection diodes and will try to power up everything on the PCB that's connected to that power rail. R2 limits that current to a value that the protection diodes can handle. In normal operation it has no effect on the timing because the NAND inputs have such high impedence - typically GΩ.

• Thanks for the edits, Andrew. Too much of a hurry, I'm afraid. – Transistor Jun 15 '17 at 14:23
• I recommend you wait a day or so before accepting the answer. You might get a better one. – Transistor Jun 15 '17 at 16:06
• if I only had the time... lol – Jedi Engineer Jun 15 '17 at 17:04
• Besides, it's locked. I can't uncheck it if I wanted to. Let's see what pops up. – Jedi Engineer Jun 15 '17 at 17:10
• let me throw a cog in the works - these are 5V parts, and the VIH level is 3.5V, and the VOL level is 1.6V. How does that change the equation? Or do I need the exponential function for this? – Jedi Engineer Jun 15 '17 at 17:12