1
\$\begingroup\$

I'm working on implementing a DALI bus interface circuit.

DALI has a few specifics that make this tricky: The device should draw at most 2mA when receiving, it transmits by shorting the bus (250mA is limited by the supply). The normal voltage is 16-22V, BUT the bus must survive polarity reversal and also a short to 230VAC (this is for the case when a technicial installing it wires it wrong).

Here's the STEVAL-ILM001V1 schematic that I determined to be the closest to what I want - there are several simpler circuits online, usually with no 230V protection whatsoever.

enter image description here

I understand most of it, but there's a few details I need to understand before implementing it:

  1. Why is the resistor R2-4 split to three 68k resistors. Is this just to achieve the right value more precisely, or does it have soemthing to do with power dissipation?
  2. What is the function of those resistors anyway? I understand that the two transistors form a current limiter. What role do those resistors play here? The current is set by U(CE_Q1)/R5, if I understand it right
  3. What is the function of C1? (maybe related to C2 - next point)
  4. Ditto for C2 - is this to allow keeping the bus shorted for the required time to send a pulse? My understanding is that the current supply won't supply anything when the bus is shorted, and the Q2 gate would sink to GND via R6? So I guess it might oscillate or go into some non-standard state where e.g Q2 is in the resistive region and dissipates heat?
  5. edit Also, what's the purpose of R1? A "fuse"?

Next, I plan to improve the 230VAC protection by adding a small-signal NMOS (e.g. BSS123) like this: - can this work? I want R11 to get some voltage on it when D4 conducts, taking the Q4 gate above the gate threshold and switching it on - so when my MCU tries to transmit, nothing happens.

thanks for all answers!

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ Have you tried using a free simulation tool? \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Mar 29 at 10:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Andyaka I couldn't get circuitstudio simulation working. anyway if this gets answered it'll be helpful for others - there is very little useful info on DALI transceiver design online, and i've seen real products that got this wrong and just blow up on 230VAC short \$\endgroup\$ – MightyPork Mar 29 at 10:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ @mightypork - I am working on DALI circuits currently and would like to know if there are any updates on your project. Currently I am figuring out this 220 VAC part. \$\endgroup\$ – Whiskeyjack May 15 at 12:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Whiskeyjack we made a PCB and did some very basic tests, but other things took priority so I can't tell you if the 230V protection works. I only tested the communication part with optocouplers. Here's the relevant piece of my schematic, if it helps share.ondrovo.com/2019-05-16/Screenshot_20190516_154004.png \$\endgroup\$ – MightyPork May 16 at 13:45
  • \$\begingroup\$ @mightypork - thanks a lot. I will put up an update here if I find something useful regarding this. You can check this answer if you want. \$\endgroup\$ – Whiskeyjack May 16 at 13:52
1
\$\begingroup\$

R2-R4 is split because of their limiting element voltage specification, and that series combination will have nearly 400V across it (peak rectified mains, including tolerance of mains voltage, minus a few volts for the zener, opto, transistor drop). Although the current is set by the transistor circuit, it only drops a few volts when in current limit mode, so the rest of the voltage has to be dropped somewhere.

C1 will be for rise/fall time control, DALI specifies minimum and maximums for rise and fall time under different conditions. A lot of example transceiver designs don't include this feature.

\$\endgroup\$
0
\$\begingroup\$

Regarding the 230V short: your idea looks good to me. Adding these compontents would sufficiently suppress transmission above approximately 48V (DC). It will draw more current from "the supply" (D2, C2) than normal, but since it is a protection for an abnormal installation ... who cares. However, I would increase the values of the resistive divider a bit and split R10 into three resistors as well. And you must add another Z-Diode to the gate of Q4, otherwise the voltage might go above the limit. Because I'm currently working on such a transceiver as well, I've created a small simulation (with LTspice) and selected three times 68k, 16k for R11 and a 18V Z-Diode. This works very good and you can use normal 250mW resistors (a 1206 SMD resistor for example).

\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ thanks, the second zener is a good idea. I personally hope this protection will never be used, but clumsy technicians will surely prove me wrong \$\endgroup\$ – MightyPork Apr 1 at 9:05

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.