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I want to mesure the speed of BLDC motor using back-EMF constant, \$Ke=Vrms/rpm\$, so the speed is \$rpm=Vrms/ke\$.

What I want to know is how to get the Vrms? Suppose I have DC supply=40 V and the duty cycle = 80% does the \$Vrms = 0.8*40=32V\$? Or the \$Vrms=40*0.8/sqrt(3)=18.47V\$?

Edit:
i already know how to mesure the speed using this equation
\$rpm=F*60/p\$
but instead I want to estimate the speed using back-EMF constant.

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    \$\begingroup\$ surely it's far easier with a BLDC to time the transitions of the back EMF? \$\endgroup\$
    – Neil_UK
    Commented Oct 19, 2020 at 9:43
  • \$\begingroup\$ Neil ,I didn't understand what you said ? \$\endgroup\$
    – Mourad
    Commented Oct 19, 2020 at 13:05
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    \$\begingroup\$ Its a sinewave. Its frequency is a much better measure of the speed than voltage will ever be. Use a frequency meter and divide by the number of pole pairs. (*60 for RPM) \$\endgroup\$
    – user16324
    Commented Oct 19, 2020 at 14:14
  • \$\begingroup\$ yes i know, but i want to use it in application where i compare the speed of the motor under load and the desired speed when applying PWM \$\endgroup\$
    – Mourad
    Commented Oct 19, 2020 at 15:25
  • \$\begingroup\$ That's silly, you can't electronically commutate a BLDC without knowing how fast the poles are passing. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 21, 2020 at 12:10

1 Answer 1

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After some research i found the solution.
thus, i will answer my own question
Some motor spec use \$ke= Vrms/rpm \$(because when calculating the Ke they used the VRMS volatge and not the peak voltage) so in my example the \$Vrms=40*0.8/sqrt(2)\$
but most motor manufactures use \$Ke= Vpeak/rpm\$ so in my example \$Vpeak=40*0.8\$
and in order to calculate the rpm i need to take into consideration the voltage drop and the losses therefore the actual speed will be
\$rpm=Dutycyle*(Vsupply-Vdrop)/Ke -(Ploss/Tloss)\$
with \$(Ploss/Tloss)\$ is the speed reduction brought about by the power and subsequent torque required to be produced by a motor to overcome friction, windage and core losses.
source:https://things-in-motion.blogspot.com/2019/05/understanding-bldc-pmsm-electric-motors.html

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  • \$\begingroup\$ As explained in comments this is a weak solution to the problem. To drive the motor via electronic commutation the driver has to measure the actual timing of pole passing, and the pole count is a constant, so you readily know the actual instantaneous RPM as well - without the error this amplitude scheme will suffer. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 21, 2020 at 12:12
  • \$\begingroup\$ as i said in the comment, i'm actually measuring the speed of the motor with the equation rpm=f*60/p but i also want to comapre it with the equation above.i don't why you downvote my answer i think my question is clear ''Determine the speed of BLDC motor using back-EMF constant'' \$\endgroup\$
    – Mourad
    Commented Oct 21, 2020 at 13:23
  • \$\begingroup\$ This is a foolish and inaccurate way to measure speed, when there's an implicitly accurate one available in the act of commutation itself. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 21, 2020 at 13:42
  • \$\begingroup\$ well Chris i can not explain to you what's the hole project because it has many details for a comment, all i want is to determine the speed using back-EMF constant and not the frequency and the pole pairs. maybe the only thing i should correct it is to replace "determine" with "estimate" in the question \$\endgroup\$
    – Mourad
    Commented Oct 21, 2020 at 14:04

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