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I have a car inverter (DC 12 V to AC 240 V). Inverter's frequency is 60 Hz.

I want to connect the output (240 V) of the inverter to an transformer (AC 240 V to AC 16 V) which indicates input frequency 50 Hz.

Is it ok to connect them? Will the frequency difference damage the transformer?

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  • \$\begingroup\$ It's not the frequency that could damage the transformer, but the increase in working temperature due to possible lower efficiency at 60Hz. You should derate the transformer, i.e. use it at a max power which is somewhat lower than its rated maximum. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 5:00
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    \$\begingroup\$ Looks like you are solving the wrong problem. What you are trying to power? \$\endgroup\$
    – fraxinus
    Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 15:10
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    \$\begingroup\$ The question you asked has gotten some very good answers, however it seems likely that the question might not be the best one to get the best information for what you want to do. You might like to consider writing a new question (leaving this one as it is since there are good answers for it). Perhaps something like: "I want to power this brand/model equipment that takes 16VAC power from my 12V car battery. I have a brand/model 12VDC to 240VAC inverter. Can I use a 240V/16VAC transformer to power the device from the inverter? Or is there a better solution?" \$\endgroup\$
    – ovirt
    Commented Oct 27, 2021 at 5:52
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    \$\begingroup\$ Smells like an XY problem. What device are you powering, and is it inside a car/camper ? \$\endgroup\$
    – Criggie
    Commented Oct 27, 2021 at 9:25

4 Answers 4

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It's almost certainly okay with the same ratings, with 60Hz and the same voltage in.

Flux density is 20% lower decreasing core losses as transformers are usually optimized to run close to saturation, probably more than compensating for any small increase due to the frequency. Copper (\$I^2R\$) losses will be the same at the same RMS current.

This characteristic is used to advantage in aircraft systems by running transformers at 400Hz rather than 50 or 60Hz which allows proportionally more VA for the same core mass. Because of the relatively high frequency the laminations have to be thinner to reduce eddy current losses though.

Going the other way- running a transformer optimized for 60Hz on 50Hz is a different matter. You can do it if you lower the input voltage by 20%, but at full rated voltage it would most likely overheat, and perhaps dramatically so, since transformers are typically designed to operate just at the edge of saturation with maximum input voltage in order to minimize materials, weight and cost. Saturation means that the dissipation can increase drastically, causing insulation failure and premature death of the transformer. That occurs because the effective inductance drops dramatically when the core saturates.

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    \$\begingroup\$ I'd suggest stronger language than "could overheat", since a reader might expect that power dissipation would be proportional to voltage or maybe the square of voltage. Perhaps "could go into saturation, generating orders of magnitude more heat than normal". \$\endgroup\$
    – supercat
    Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 16:56
  • \$\begingroup\$ @supercat Okay, edited. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 16:59
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    \$\begingroup\$ @supercat Seconded: I have a transformer with ~3A idle current at 60Hz, but ~12A idle current at 50Hz. Both in high-line conditions, but the device is supposed to cope with +/-10% mains range (in fact, anything anyone designs should cope with that at minimum of course). \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 17:46
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Kubahasn'tforgottenMonica That's really close to the edge. Microwave oven transformers are notorious for that sort of thing. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 17:55
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It is sort of OK. You will not damage it, but the efficiency probably will be lower. It could be a problem for a motor, but a transformer will probably work.

Are you sure 12V isn't enough where you are going to use 16V? Perhaps you could skip the transformer.

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    \$\begingroup\$ thanks. Is it ok connect DC 12V output to an AC 12V input? \$\endgroup\$
    – lei lei
    Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 4:42
  • \$\begingroup\$ I'm not sure it's so OK without derating it. If it is used at it's rated power the decreased efficiency means more heat produced, which could increase the temperature substantially (depending on the actual transformer assembly and materials). This could lead to damaged insulation and spectacular failures. As a very general and conservative rule of thumb, not knowing anything else about the transformer and its intended use, I'd say it's OK only if it's used at half its rated power. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 4:56
  • \$\begingroup\$ @lei lei it depends on what do you have on input. If it's an aquarium pump-probably it will not work, it's an ac motor. Can even overheat. But if it's something that has a rectifier, might work. \$\endgroup\$
    – TQQQ
    Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 11:39
  • \$\begingroup\$ @LorenzoDonati--Codidact.com My experience with iron laminated core transformers in 1VA-1kVA range, designed for 50Hz use, shows that they all dissipate less at 60Hz vs 50Hz. It'd be a really oddball transformer that would fare worse at 60Hz. No derating is necessary. Mains transformers above 25VA are typically power-limited by the core saturation and not winding heating, and thus running a 50Hz transformer at 60Hz gives you a 20% VA gain for free! There are exceptions of course, but not typically. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 17:49
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    \$\begingroup\$ If the OP has a need for 16 volts AC, then they cannot directly use 12 volts DC. Whether 12 V AC might be good enough is a fair question but if the device wants AC, I would not feed it DC. \$\endgroup\$
    – CCTO
    Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 20:13
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A 50 Hz transformer may be safely operated at 60 Hz.

An increase in losses at 60 Hz would be offset by reduction of the same due to lower flux density in the larger 50 Hz core area.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Downvoted for saying its VA gets derated due to increased impedance. The increase in primary inductance will reduce the magnetising current, but that's not what controls the VA. \$\endgroup\$
    – Neil_UK
    Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 8:06
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Neil_UK, Oops! Many thanks. I appreciate your help. I will rework my answer. \$\endgroup\$
    – vu2nan
    Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 12:49
  • \$\begingroup\$ I agree, using a 50 Hz transformer @60 Hz probably works well or even better. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 26, 2021 at 16:09
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A 50Hz transformer will happily run at 60Hz with minimal change in efficiency (it may be positive or negative, depending on the transformer design compromises).

Then again, connecting whatever transformer to whatever inverter is usually not very good idea.

Cheap inverters tend to generate square-ish wave rich in harmonics (higher frequencies) that may heat the transformer core. Even if the transformer is OK with this, the load that expects AC may not like the square AC either.

Inverters (even the more expensive "pure sine wave" type) may not like the inductive character of the transformer or its not-so-mild transient behavior on power-on. The inverter may shutdown (or even get damaged) in response to the transformer startup current.

And finally, all these problems are solvable, but the whole idea doesn't look very much efficient. 12V sources tend to be limited in available energy and the energy from them is expensive in the first place.

You may get better result by powering whatever needs these 16V by other means.

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