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Summary: I have two circuits: One on breaboard and one on PCB. I have two Microcontrollers: A commercial one (pre programmed) and a personal one (with whom I try to recreate the commercial one). The commercial uC works in both circuits and my recreated one works only in the breadboard. I dont understand how one can work on both and the other doesn't.

Context

Disclaimer: All resources like schematics, images, code, etc. can be found below. I try to be as thorough as possible with this question.

I bought a simple electrice dice circuit, which will "roll" a dice with a press of a button. This uses LEDs and a uC to do and came pre programmed (see below for an image). When the button is pressed, the LEDs will flicker and when released, the rolled number will stay for 3 seconds, until the LEDs turn off. This is super simple, consisting only out of LEDs, Resistors, Batteries, a button, and an uC which is ATTiny13 by Atmel.

My goal is to recreate the programming of the uC myself and eventually build similar circuits myself (start small, right?).

Now, I have the schematics of the commercial one (see first image below) and rebuilt it all on my breadboard (see 2nd image below). I validated this circuit by taking the ATTiny13 from the commercial version (it is removable due to a socket) and put it in my self made circuit. Everythings works perfectly.

Then I started to program my first own ATTiny13. I did some simple LED blinking tests and then tried a dice script from a website to test it out (see code below). All of this works perfectly fine on my breadboard. Also rolling the dice will work great.

The moment, I put this into the commercial PCB (with the same schematics), nothing works. Neither the blinking script or the dice script will result in any LED blinking. Pressing the button will not change anything.

Many things come to my mind which could be an issue, but it comes down to one point: "When the PCB and the circuit on the breadboard are indeed the same schematic and are similar, a uC which works on one, shall work on the other." This is true for the commercial one, but not for mine. I am really puzzled by this and my limited electronics knowledge is now catching up on me. Maybe PCBs behave differently after all? I checked thoroughly both circuits and they seem to be exactly like the schematics.

I am very happy for any help or hint in the right direction. Currently I dont even know for what to look out for. I think I might oversee something fundamental here.

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond, much appreciated!

Resources

General Info

R1 - 5.6k Ohm
R2 - 10k Ohm
R3 R4 R6 - 15 Ohm
R5 - 120 Ohm

Vcc are three 1.5V batteries (4.5V)

Microcontroller: ATTiny13 Datasheet

For programming, I use the Arduino IDE and an Arduino Nano as ISP (I followed this guide). I program the ATTiny with the following settings (although I know hardly anything about the meaning of those):

BOD: 4.3V
EEPROM: EEPROM retained
Clock: 1.2 MHz, internal osc.
Timing: Micros disabled

Circuit Schematic

Circuit Schematic

Breadboard Circuit

Breadboard Circuit

PCB Circuit

PCB Circuit

Code

/* 
 *  The LEDs are arranged like this
 *  
 *  LED3      LED6
 *  LED2 LED7 LED5
 *  LED1      LED4
 *  
 *  
 *  
 *  AtTiny13 Pins
 *  ---------------------
 *          1_o___8 5V
 *  LED34   2_____7 LED25
 *  LED7    3_____6 LED16
 *  GND     4_____5 BTN
 *  -----------------------
 *  
 *  
 */

// The pins will be addressed using their PB Number (see above)
int pinLed16 = 1;
int pinLed25 = 2;
int pinLed34 = 3;
int pinLed7 = 4;
int pinButton = 0;
int buttonState;
long ran;
int time = 2000;

void setup ()
{
  pinMode (pinLed16, OUTPUT);
  pinMode (pinLed25, OUTPUT);
  pinMode (pinLed34, OUTPUT);
  pinMode (pinLed7, OUTPUT);
  pinMode (pinButton, INPUT);
  // This resulted in an error, so it is commented out for now.
  //randomSeed(analogRead(A3));
}

void loop()
{
  buttonState = digitalRead(pinButton);
  if (buttonState == HIGH){
    ran = random(1, 7);
    if (ran == 1){
      digitalWrite (pinLed7, HIGH);
      delay (time);
    }
    if (ran == 2){
      digitalWrite (pinLed16, HIGH);
      delay (time);
    }
    if (ran == 3){
      digitalWrite (pinLed34, HIGH);
      digitalWrite (pinLed7, HIGH);
      delay (time);
    }
    if (ran == 4){
      digitalWrite (pinLed16, HIGH);
      digitalWrite (pinLed34, HIGH);
      delay (time);
    }
    if (ran == 5){
      digitalWrite (pinLed16, HIGH);
      digitalWrite (pinLed34, HIGH);
      digitalWrite (pinLed7, HIGH);
      delay (time);
   }
   if (ran == 6){
      digitalWrite (pinLed16, HIGH);
      digitalWrite (pinLed25, HIGH);
      digitalWrite (pinLed34, HIGH);
      delay (time);
   }
  }
  digitalWrite (pinLed16, LOW);
  digitalWrite (pinLed25, LOW);
  digitalWrite (pinLed34, LOW);
  digitalWrite (pinLed7, LOW);
}
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  • 6
    \$\begingroup\$ Have you measured with a multimeter what is the actual supply voltage on breadboard batteries versus whatever is powering the commercial board? \$\endgroup\$
    – Justme
    Dec 21, 2021 at 12:42
  • 7
    \$\begingroup\$ They obviously skipped it, but I would try adding a 100 nF bypass capacitor from Vcc to GND as close to the µC as possible. \$\endgroup\$
    – Arsenal
    Dec 21, 2021 at 12:51
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ this and this might get you started - note the links there as well. \$\endgroup\$
    – Arsenal
    Dec 21, 2021 at 13:14
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Note that "breadbord" are very "capacitive". So the different behavior ? \$\endgroup\$
    – Antonio51
    Dec 21, 2021 at 13:21
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Never put a microcontroller on a board without a bypass capacitor connected to it's power pin. Even if you think it's not needed, start with it connected and later if you need to save the extra 2 cents try removing it once everything is working. \$\endgroup\$ Dec 21, 2021 at 19:29

2 Answers 2

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The problem is the 4.3V BOD (brown-out detector) level combined with old batteries.

The BOD level of 4.3V does not make sense as microcontroller will be in reset if batteries currently only provide 4.18V.

Use a lower BOD level.

2.7V BOD level should be fine for starters. Full batteries might provide 1.6V per cell (4.8V) and are considered empty at around 0.9V per cell (2.7V).

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  • \$\begingroup\$ That's a good hint. And if it should also run on 3x NiMH it must be lower as well. \$\endgroup\$
    – Arsenal
    Dec 21, 2021 at 13:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ It seems that on "arduino", for ATTINY85, this is set to 2.7V? For ATTINY13 set at 4.3V, confirmed. Can be changed very easily. \$\endgroup\$
    – Antonio51
    Dec 21, 2021 at 13:45
  • 11
    \$\begingroup\$ I could give you a hug right now! I was already mentally prepared for a long and hard solution, but this was actually the only thing that it needed. Works wonderfully now! Thanks you so much for taking the time and give this reply! \$\endgroup\$ Dec 21, 2021 at 16:03
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ It is always good to confirm the core for these discussions. I assume it was MCUDude's MicroCore? Has no effect unless you actually burn the fuses so the factory defaults may also be important. \$\endgroup\$
    – mckenzm
    Dec 22, 2021 at 3:19
  • \$\begingroup\$ Yes, exactly. What is the matter with the cores? What is their purpose? \$\endgroup\$ Dec 23, 2021 at 9:25
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Assuming you’ve added the missing bypass capacitor, try this:

Unplug the MCU and measure the voltages on the socket relative to 4- confirm 8 and 1 are 5V. Confirm that 5 is 0V and becomes 5V when the switch is pressed.

Then jumper a 150 ohm resistor from 8 to each of 3, 2, 7 and 6 and confirm for each that the expected LEDs light.

If everything checks out, move the chip from the breadboard to the PCB- they appear to be different chips.

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  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Hello, although the other one was the solution, this is valuable advice for debugging. Thanks, I will keep it in mind :) \$\endgroup\$ Dec 21, 2021 at 16:07

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