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First, a little background. I picked up a Canadian-made 1971 Lincoln Idealarc 250 on the cheap with the intention of turning it into a constant voltage capable machine for wire processes. The fan ran rough and AC selection was not working when I got it. I fixed those things easily and moved on to getting this rig to MIG. The end goal is to be able to vary the Voltage output on the welder from 20 to 45V.

I managed everything alright, time delays, SSRs and thermal overload for the transformer. Decided on regulating voltage with a semi-controlled full wave rectifier. The SCRs I bought have both a gate and what looks to me is a second cathode, which threw me.

enter image description here

I've built a few rectifiers to convert AC only arc welders over to DC but this phase control thing has me a bit stumped. I understand you need to trigger the gate at certain times to change the firing angle. I'm unsure as how to accomplish that though.

If the SCR is controlled by trigger and quench pulses - should I be using a generic AC control circuit? I was wondering if someone wiser than I could clarify this and/or point me to a circuit that will work. These SCRs were a bit of money. I really don't want to pop them.

Machine Specs

72 OCV - 250A DC - 300A AC

Here's an simplified diagram of what I have so far.

EDIT - Updated Diagram. I was wondering if I could get away with just using a cheap PWM controller? Also tried to integrate one of the circuits Antonio suggested but I don't think I did it correctly, and didn't want to try it just yet in case I risk some sort of catastrophic failure. I also discovered something called a "chopper board" I'm wondering If this is something I could build or pick up a generic one online somewhere? I was pretty sure a semi controlled full wave rectifier was the way to go since I read somewhere they're good for 60 - 80% efficiency, which is alright since the welders voltage is so high. Found out about these boards that chop the waveform so I'm not sure now. Looking for the easiest solution to implement. With the exception of regulating voltage on the Primary side. Without Power factor correction, the welder draws something like 98a @ 240VAC when maxed out on the constant current side of things. So, I guessed if i want to run it at 36v DC@250a - 0.035 solid-core or 38v with 0.40, I'm stuck regulating the secondary unless I want to use some massive gauge cable for the power cord to carry the main supply.

Edit: updated diagram. Tried PWM controller - didn't work. Also tried a few other circuits I found online unsuccessfully. The particular chopper board I need for my machine is from a Lincoln Power-Mig 300. They are a discontinued transformer MIG welder so the choppers for them are no longer available. I found one used board for $3600 CAD which is wayyy too much. So back to fashioning a method of voltage regulation for myself.

Discovered this circuit from learnabout-electronics.

enter image description here

Its for a transformer that's for 240v to 12v that drives a 100ma lamp as opposed 240v to 72v @ 250a DC so the capacitor and resistance values won't do. I'll have to fiddle with those a bit.

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It can't be that easy, can it?

I was also curious if it were possible to regulate the voltage off the secondary, before the rectifier, with 2 big SCRs back to back?

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I was also wondering if I should tap the secondary closer to the centre of the winding. The secondary has 15 windings. If I were to tap number 10 that should net me 48v. Would tapping that winding a little earlier help make this project a little easier? The windings are aluminum, with a decent air gap so I can get in there easy with chill bars and a torch if needed.

Trying to figure out what would be the easiest manner to get me some variable voltage capability. Sorry for the all newbie questions and the wiring diagrams done in paint. Can't get Circuit lab figured out.

Thanks for reading.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Note that firing is done (on the doc I found) through H11C4 optocouplers farnell.com/datasheets/305130.pdf. I add schematic in answer. \$\endgroup\$
    – Antonio51
    Commented Mar 30, 2022 at 6:47
  • \$\begingroup\$ Funny in these days seeing SCR bridges. Well they work well until you need to fix current harmonics. Also, rereading, these days being the 1971 I guess it was the standard technology for the time. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Mar 30, 2022 at 7:04
  • \$\begingroup\$ Thank you for the help, Antonio. I ended up bailing on SCRs, as Lorenzo said they are a bit dated. I had no Idea when I started the project, that MOSFETS are far easier to drive. Thanks again for the help, I got a good idea of what to do now. \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 26, 2022 at 6:56

1 Answer 1

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I managed everything alright, except for regulating voltage with a semi-controlled full wave rectifier. The SCRs I bought have both a gate and what looks to me is a second cathode, which threw me.

EE&O ...
The 2 red wires are connected to the cathode of the SCR, one for big power, the other for the driver which needs much less current ...
The other thin wire (white) is the gate of the SCR.
And the other ( big bolt) is the anode ...

Here an example of circuit ... (example of driving gate with multipulses, generally inductive load)

enter image description here

enter image description here

And here another configuration.

enter image description here

And for a good driving, the characteristic(Vgt vs Igt) must be known.
"Load line" must be used for correct drive.

enter image description here

EDIT: Added firing circuitry

enter image description here

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Ty. Unfortunately I'm unable to decipher those prints. Is Vg tapped into the positive line coming out the Rec for voltage reference? Those "L" components are what I assume to be inductors? Not sure what X5/X6 are - connections maybe?. That little Vpulses circuit on the bottom has me stumped, not sure what it for. Also that rectifier looks like it just has diodes in it and no SCRs. Is X5 the SCR on the output? And yeah I was pretty sure the circuit I drew on the right wasn't going to work. Thanks for the help, although I'm finding solid state electronics to be a bit overwhelming at this point. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Mar 19, 2022 at 16:20
  • \$\begingroup\$ NB: all X are "labels" designing bridge (4 diodes), SCR. D is a diode. L are inductors. Vg is the rectified main for the SCR. The three pulses are used when loads are inductive, but not necessary. One "large" pulse (1ms) is also ok, as used after. You can use 2 SCR with 2 diodes (as in your picture), in place of 1 diode bridge and 1 SCR (lower cost). The driving pulse (one every 10 ms in EU, 50 Hz ...) is sent to the gate via a transformer (so your command circuit is isolated from the main). This simple circuit lacks, however "protections" (current SCR measured ... for shorts, etc ...) \$\endgroup\$
    – Antonio51
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 8:09
  • \$\begingroup\$ NB: you should also use the "stabilizer" device ("saturable" inductor ?), probably, as my L4 inductor to limit current surges ... \$\endgroup\$
    – Antonio51
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 8:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ Ok. I see that the control board is MC68H11 processor-based ( very "old"). It can be replaced by one modern (and more "simple" board) processor. There is some "work" to do ... Especially the temperature and current protection scheme. Good luck. \$\endgroup\$
    – Antonio51
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 8:46
  • \$\begingroup\$ My V1 (after the bridge) is not the "main" voltage (220V) but the secondary of transformer which is, "open Voltage" = 10->40 V max. Downloaded the manual of Idealarc 250 ... I read a little :-) \$\endgroup\$
    – Antonio51
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 8:47

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