4
\$\begingroup\$

I'm now working on a new hobby project, an audio amplifier using TDA2050 ICs in bridge configuration, to be fed by phone or PC earphone output. I already made the amplifier, it sounds fantastic. Two of these per channel.

When I started looking for tone control circuits, I find those using op-amps like 4558, 741, etc. and those using general purpose transistors.

Beyond any underlaying economical or simplicity reasons, is there a real overwhelming benefit on choosing op-amps over transistors for tone controls for HIFI home audio amplifiers?

As examples.

This:

enter image description here

VS. this:

enter image description here

\$\endgroup\$
13
  • 11
    \$\begingroup\$ Well, probably not much with that specific opamp. The 741 isn't a very good opamp. But with a modern opamp, temperature stability, power supply noise rejection and repeatability between circuits comes to mind as being better. \$\endgroup\$
    – Aaron
    Commented May 15, 2023 at 17:08
  • 12
    \$\begingroup\$ The 741 was an absolutely terrific op-amp when it came out. In 1975 or something. In the past 50 years, though, manufacturers have learned how to do better. Much, much better. I think it only has life because people keep recycling ancient circuits. By rights, the 741 should only have a life in obsolete industrial, medical, and military electronics that are clinging to life because the paperwork to upgrade them is worse than sourcing antique components. You don't have that constraint. You can use new parts. \$\endgroup\$
    – TimWescott
    Commented May 15, 2023 at 17:34
  • 4
    \$\begingroup\$ To subtract a bit from the ritual and deserved slagging of the ancient 741, there are also worse op-amps for audio that are newer and far more popular. Eg. LM358 with massive crossover distortion. \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 15, 2023 at 17:35
  • 3
    \$\begingroup\$ It's not funny, it's serious. You're dealing with how electrons and holes behave in a certain semiconductor in the presence of a slightly different semiconductor - not much effort has been put in to make it "nice". An op-amp is designed quite hard to be "nice". \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 15, 2023 at 17:36
  • 4
    \$\begingroup\$ I lovehate how much these schematics are obviously been copied over and over and over again, then "improved" with meaningless color and the last thief of that intellectual property then had the audacity to slap their URL right across the middle of the schematic. Aram, hint: whenever you see a schematic that has more JPEG compression artifact than a 1996 cat picture, you know it's been copied by at least one person in the chain of stealing that had not the slightest clue. You can thus be almost certain that websites that propagate these kinds of circuits are low quality. \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 16, 2023 at 8:56

5 Answers 5

9
\$\begingroup\$

Yes, likely you can buy better op-amps for Hi-Fi than you can make yourself from multiple transistors. And likely op-amps are better than just a single transistor amplifier, but it might suffice if you don't require much performance.

Also, op-amps like 741 or 4558 are made of transistors, so in the end they are also just a bunch of transistors, better than a single transistor. Before op-amp ICs were available, op-amps were modules made of discrete transistors and other components. Before transistors were available, op-amps were even larger modules made with thermionic valves (electron tubes).

Although if you want Hi-Fi like you say, you might want to use other components in place of TDA2050 or ua741, better components exist.

\$\endgroup\$
2
  • 3
    \$\begingroup\$ The 741 opamp came out in 1968 as a general purpose amplifier, not for audio. It is noisy and has trouble above 9kHz. Use a modern opamp made for audio like an OPA134 or TL071. \$\endgroup\$
    – Audioguru
    Commented May 15, 2023 at 18:39
  • \$\begingroup\$ Gotta love the sound you get from a tube amp <3 \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 16, 2023 at 17:08
9
\$\begingroup\$

Now that all of the (1968) 741 thumping is out of the way,,,,,

An opamp is superior because of how it interacts with the frequency-modifying networks. Compared to any single bipolar transistor circuit configuration, an opamp will have a nearly perfect zero-ohm output impedance (critical for driving feedback networks), and either a nearly-infinite impedance non-inverting input or a nearly perfect virtual-ground inverting input.

All of that means that the tone control networks will behave exactly as the math predicts. The driving-point impedance seen by the lower schematic R2 and C4 is a significant fraction of the impedances of those components, and will change as a function of signal amplitude. This will cause non-ideal frequency-shaping effects, and interaction between the two control settings.

Similarly, the upper schematic R3-C3 node is tied to a virtual GND, so there is no interaction between the bass and treble settings. The Q1 input impedance is not nearly low enough to prevent this.

\$\endgroup\$
1
  • \$\begingroup\$ correct. It is interesting that in professional analogue consoles, FET opamps are typically preferred in EQ circuits, whereas bipolar designs (often the venerable 5532) are used in drivers, pre-amps and so on, most likely because their very high input impedance loads the CR networks used in the filter circuits much less, and allows smaller C's to be used. \$\endgroup\$
    – danmcb
    Commented Aug 16, 2023 at 7:31
5
\$\begingroup\$

A modern audio opamp is made for and used for hifi. It has many transistors for extremely high gain and bandwidth that creates very low distortion and full audio bandwidth.
Here is the awful distortion of a single transistor similar to the old tone controls circuit you found:

distortion

\$\endgroup\$
6
  • 5
    \$\begingroup\$ Of course, an electrical engineer's awful distortion may be a sound engineer's awesome overdrive... most popular when produced by the valves in guitar amps, but also studio equipment often prefers discrete transistors, in part because they distort early and smoothly when the input gets to the limit. By contrast, op-amps first distort almost not at all and then suddenly hard-clip, which sounds much worse. (Which, of course, can also sometimes be just what the musician wants...) \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 16, 2023 at 14:40
  • \$\begingroup\$ @leftaroundabout exactly - that's why my first question was "do you want a precise circuit or a creative one?" :) \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 16, 2023 at 14:55
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ 1. Single transistor tone control circuits should not operate with the voltage swing you show. 2. The transistor’s operating point can be set to the peak of the hFE-lC curve so for “small “ signals the linearity is not as bad as the simulation suggests. 3. The lower diagram in the OP shows negative feedback which also improves small signal linearity. \$\endgroup\$
    – user319836
    Commented May 16, 2023 at 15:37
  • \$\begingroup\$ @leftaroundabout BJT transistors have wide enough variation that it does not make sense to use them without considerable negative feedback, and then they clip pretty hard. The solid-state simulation of tube amp overdrive is usually done with JFETs instead. \$\endgroup\$
    – user107063
    Commented May 16, 2023 at 19:02
  • \$\begingroup\$ The fairly high level I showed occurs frequently in hifi peak levels (+20dB above average levels). 30% distortion sounds awful. Radio stations use lots of compression which also sounds "wrong". \$\endgroup\$
    – Audioguru
    Commented May 16, 2023 at 21:40
5
\$\begingroup\$

Either is, of course, the standard Baxandall tone control circuit that essentially zeroes a frequency-dependent adjustable bridge between signal and negative feedback from an inverting amplifier.

The single-transistor version has no dependable amplification factor, limited linearity, variable noise performance, considerable quiescent current that drives noise via heating components.

The opamp version, in contrast, has quite constant design parameters. It will inherently have crossover distortion but will go to considerable lengths to obviate its effects, and in connection with bypass capacitors there are well-documented ways to get rid of it.

Noise performance will be good, quiescent current for low-noise low-distortion operation will usually be considerably less than the single-transistor version.

You wouldn't use transistors from the 70s, and of course you wouldn't use the 741. You can pick opamps that fit your use regarding the specs. Inverting configuration means that you need not worry about common-mode distortion, so you can pick a JFET opamp like the OPA2134 that has no specific common-mode distortion compensation (like OPA1642 has) that will have very high input impedance (and thus not sap the Baxandall network operation), no relevant input current noise given the variable Baxandall network impedances, and input voltage noise of 8nV/√Hz which corresponds more or less to the noise of a 3.2kΩ resistor which is small in relation to the other impedances (one might lower all impedances for less overall noise).

You can also pick other opamps with different noise figures, input impedances, slew rates and so on and match the circuit to it (with regard to a tone network, it would be customary to add a small capacitor as direct negative feedback for high frequencies that cuts off amplification outside of the audible range).

In short, using opamps allows you to design your circuit in terms of directly audio-relevant parameters and design constraints with high precision and dependable results.

And on-chip compensation networks and laser-trimmed components allow for a precision and functional simplicity that you just don't get with isolated components.

\$\endgroup\$
3
  • \$\begingroup\$ " You wouldn't use transistors from the 70s " I would. The "A" in Motorola's MPA series of discrete transistors stands for Audio. \$\endgroup\$
    – AnalogKid
    Commented May 16, 2023 at 2:54
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @AnalogKid They don't produce transistors with the same processes now as they did in the 70s. For example, the original RCA 2N3055 had way lower bandwidth than what is sold nowadays under that part number but was quite harder to kill via secondary breakdown: the modern epitaxial processes create a different problem space. \$\endgroup\$
    – user107063
    Commented May 16, 2023 at 8:01
  • \$\begingroup\$ I still have a little amplifier I built from 2N2222 transistors around 1977. Not a great amplifier by any means--but it would still take little short of an actual miracle to get a 741 to reproduce audio nearly as accurately. \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 17, 2023 at 15:07
1
\$\begingroup\$

"Are op-amps really superior to transistors for an audio tone control?"

Well, the answer depends on how you define the "superiority". As tone controls are there to modify the signal, or to put it differently to wilfully "distort" the signal, it depends on if you like the resulting effect better or not.

In hifi circuits (the people, not the electronics) intentional distortion is sometimes used to say that, as example, a tube amplifier makes the sound warmer. In studio recording "intentional distortion" is used a lot, all from tone controls and various compressors and echos and so on, in order to "heighten the experience".

It all comes back to what you want to achieve by "distorting the signal". If the purpose is to "heighten your experience" use whatever sounds best to your ears (never mind other peoples ears). If the purpose is to "somewhat mitigate errors in other parts of the sound chain" you are probably better off using op-amps than using a few transistors, or even better might by using a signal processor using FFT or other algorithms to modify the sound (so called room correction as available in some speaker systems).

\$\endgroup\$

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.