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At work we running seismic stations that are cabled together over distances of several kilometers. The cables have some pairs for power and some for communication. As the stations were installed in the late 60ies, the cables were designed for equipment with lower power consumption than the contemporary equipment we are using and therefore we are seeing some issues when we need to do things that draws more power on site, e.g. locking, unlocking or recentring the seismometers, all things that involves running a small motor. (We do have a rechargable battery on each site to help in those cases, but even then we have some issues and that also makes power cycling the site remotely difficult so we do not want to increase the on site battery capacity)

So I am wondering, are there any standard systems for running communication on top of low voltage power? If so, we could use all the wires for power and run communicatin on top of that rather than having to have designated pairs for communication. We have 60VDC on the cables and today the communication runs on ppp overs serial 38400baud.

The specs on the cables are as below, they have been buried since 1967, although there have been some damages and fixes since then. Cable specs

(I tried googling this, but did not find anything relevant, I did only find pages telling me not to put communication cables along power cables...)

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    \$\begingroup\$ It's certainly possible. A standard system may not suit though unless you were prepared to replace the comms channel completely. Can you edit to give any clues about the communication protocol (e.g. RS-232) and transmission speed (e.g. 600 baud), etc. \$\endgroup\$
    – Transistor
    Commented Feb 9 at 14:30
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    \$\begingroup\$ MortenSickel - Hi, (a) Can you link to the datasheet for the existing cable type(s)? (b) I guess the cables are the one part of the system that you can't change - correct? (c) Were any potential solutions considered already & eliminated? If so, why specifically were they deemed unsuitable and eliminated as possible solutions? This info may avoid people repeating effort on those. TY (Please edit that info into the question as it will be useful for others, not just me.) \$\endgroup\$
    – SamGibson
    Commented Feb 9 at 14:59
  • \$\begingroup\$ At the sites we have the digitzers that can talk serial or ethernet, at the central more or less everything is possible. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 9 at 16:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ @MortenSickel - (a) Thanks for adding the cable spec. So it seems to be 6 pairs (is each pair twisted?) + earth, but without a known max insulation voltage specification. Correct? (b) I didn't see a clear answer as to whether everything except the cables, can be modified. (c) Nor for whether any possible solutions had already been eliminated, to avoid people duplication the same answers here. || (d) You've kindly given the baud rate and mentioned PPP, but I didn't see the existing physical layer spec mentioned e.g. RS-232, RS-485 etc. \$\endgroup\$
    – SamGibson
    Commented Feb 9 at 16:44
  • \$\begingroup\$ (continued) (e) Can you be more specific about the issues you're having now? Is it communications interference (especially when operating remote motors IIUC), or remote voltage drop when doing those operations, but no comms interference, or something else? Has the actual problem been clearly specified? Or is the use of comms-over-power wires an educated guess to overcome a problem whose exact details aren't yet known? (Warning - possible XY problem in this case.) \$\endgroup\$
    – SamGibson
    Commented Feb 9 at 16:44

3 Answers 3

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Instead of doubling-up the wires, double-up the voltage. The same size wire will carry more power if you raise the voltage.

60 Vdc source -> 200 Vdc step-up converter -> 200 Vdc on cable --> 60 Vdc step-down converter --> 60 Vdc load

Or:

60 Vdc source -> 240 Vac inverter -> 240 Vac on cable --> 60 Vdc power supply --> 60 Vdc load
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    \$\begingroup\$ Davide - Hi, Re: "double-up the voltage" That's a good idea, but I don't think we yet know the insulation specification of the wires in the cable. This is why I asked for cable's datasheet, before making this suggestion. Perhaps they are currently using 60 VDC because that is at (or close to) the rated voltage of the cables...? If so, doubling the voltage wouldn't be an option. :( \$\endgroup\$
    – SamGibson
    Commented Feb 9 at 15:22
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    \$\begingroup\$ Good point, That has been considered, there are two problems, as SamGibson said, we do not have the insulation specs and also if we increase the voltage, any job to be done on the equipment (We are in Norway) has to be done by a certified professional. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 9 at 16:16
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Electrically, the simplest and perhaps most robust route is to use center-tapped transformers to inject a differential digital signal onto a pair. Each pair then carries a fixed DC voltage plus a differential signal over it. That's how Gigabit Ethernet PoE works, although you won't be able to reuse those transformers since you presumably need way more than 2A per pair.

The digital differential signal needs to have a constant DC mean at 50% of its p-p voltage, in other words it needs to be "DC balanced". In practice that means that there's, on average, the same number of ones and zeroes sent over the cable. This can be achieved in many ways, but a common way is to use a DC-balanced code.

The DC balanced codes can have fixed disparity, where for every code digit sent, there's only one way to encode it, and that encoding has the same number of ones and zeroes.

The DC balanced codes can also have a variable disparity, where certain digits can be encoded in more than one way, in order to keep the disparity at zero over a time window of several code words. The encoder keeps track of accumulated disparity and choses the code word to use from among the alternatives to steer the disparity towards zero. A common approach is to have two encodings for each data symbol, one with disparity of +1, another of disparity of -1.

To make life easy, a fixed-disparity code can be used. Say you have a 6-bit code word, with 64 possible code words. Out of those 64 code words, 20 have zero disparity, and it's convenient to use 16 of them to represent 4 bits of data. The other 4 code words then become control code words, and can be used for synchronization, as the link idle state, etc.

So, for simplicity, you can use a 4b/6b code, where each byte you send takes two 6-bit code words, one for the lower nibble, one for the upper nibble.

Zero-disparity codes are also self-clocking, since there are always transitions on the bus, so on the receiving end you can run a PLL to recover the data clock.

There may be existing chips that implement the nitty-gritty of this, but a small FPGA will do it all as well, and the "PLL" can be a DPLL that samples the output of the differential receiver at a rate much higher than the transmit clock rate. So this can be very robust, and defined entirely in VHDL or Verilog without need for any special/fancy function blocks.

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

The pairs for power can be paralleled of course, and they'll increase the data bandwidth as well. With six pairs available, you'll be transmitting triples of 4b/6b codes in parallel.

If you don't have bandwidth to design it yourself, and can't find an off-the-shelf solution, it should be something that could be easy to subcontract out.

Personally, I'd use the buried cables for power only, and use point-to-point off-the-shelf RF links that route Ethernet over the air. These are used by Fixed Wireless Internet Providers (WISPs), and can be easily procured. The link will be very fast, and you won't need to worry about PPP and serial - it'll all be interfaced via standard Ethernet ports.

The transceivers would be standard RS-422 parts with good ESD protection. There also needs to be line termination, matched to the measured characteristic impedance of the pair. You can use a TDR to measure the effective impedance of each pair.

It will probably be able to run a wee bit faster than 38400 baud.

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My first idea would be to use some communication standard with differential signaling and add a DC offset.

enter image description here

The design uses 3 wires. One is a common ground. Two are used for the RS485 signaling. The 60V power supply is connected to the ground wire and one of the RS485 lines (or both RS485 lines with resistors in between).

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