Microcontroller which is controlling mains voltage circuit requires 5 volts to operate.
Is it realistic to use diode bridge followed by capacitor to straighten the ac wave and then use voltage divider to get 5 volts from 240 without actually burning anything up ?
Or using transformer is the only means ?
Just thought to learn something new, if it is realistic.
\$\begingroup\$
\$\endgroup\$
7
-
10\$\begingroup\$ It is certainly possible, but if you need to ask then you'd best avoid the incredible shock hazard potential. \$\endgroup\$– Ignacio Vazquez-AbramsCommented Oct 18, 2017 at 14:52
-
5\$\begingroup\$ From the comments and answers one thing should be clear to you: a transformer provides an (often) essential extra function: isolation. Meaning that it will be safe to touch the 5 V output without getting an electric shock. That's a nice feature I would say. \$\endgroup\$– BimpelrekkieCommented Oct 18, 2017 at 15:11
-
\$\begingroup\$ Possible duplicate of electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/281972/… \$\endgroup\$– winnyCommented Oct 18, 2017 at 16:34
-
\$\begingroup\$ Another possible duplicate: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/127855/… \$\endgroup\$– winnyCommented Oct 18, 2017 at 16:35
-
1\$\begingroup\$ Yes it's possible but potentially very unsafe you might want to simulate the circuits given in the answers provide here but please don't actually build any of them mains electricity can be fatal if you don't fully understand what you are doing. \$\endgroup\$– Warren HillCommented Oct 18, 2017 at 17:14
|
Show 2 more comments
2 Answers
\$\begingroup\$
\$\endgroup\$
8
Capacitive power supply circuits have been used for decades in things like alarm clocks, small appliances (coffee makers) and the like. They work pretty well for small constant loads without the bulk of a heavy transformer.
The example circuit uses for C1 a capacitor labeled 225K, which refers to 2.2µF with a tolerance of 10% (see capacitor notation). Components ratings for the Zener diode (ZD) and LED are dependent on the expected power output.
However, they are scary to work on and need special considerations for user safety.
Do not think about using one unless you really know and understand what you are doing.
Even an experienced engineer like myself will shy away from them, designing everything to the right of the bridge using a bench supply till everything else is proven functional before plugging in the AC with my other hand in my back pocket.
ADDITION
Some switching power supplies also avoid using the large power transformer by rectifying the mains voltage into a large DC voltage then use high frequency switching through a much smaller transformer. Again, though, "There be dragons here!", and the DC voltages on the primary capacitors are nasty.
-
10\$\begingroup\$ As a switch mode power supply engineer "There be dragons here" is not an understatement and I use an external isolation transformer when testing and designing these to reduce the risk to a safe, for me, risk. Inexperienced people should never work on circuits like this. +1 for pointing out the safety risk. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 17:21
-
1\$\begingroup\$ @WarrenHill thanks for the up-vote and well said. Yes an isolation transformer in your test setup is a great addition when working with main level voltages. However I feel compelled to add, an isolation transformer wont save you if your poking around in the circuit with two hands on the wrong spots.. Last words of many a technician has been "It's ok, I'm using an isolation transformer!" hmm.. maybe I'll have them carve that on my headstone..LOL \$\endgroup\$– Trevor_GCommented Oct 18, 2017 at 17:33
-
2\$\begingroup\$ That's why I said safe, for me. I agree only experienced engineers should work on mains powered equipment. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 17:36
-
5\$\begingroup\$ It's worth looking through the archives of the YouTube channel run by a person under the name of "Big Clive". He's taken it upon himself to disassemble and document the widest variety of cheap and potentially dangerous consumer electronic equipment he can find. Many of them use capacitive droppers, and it's somewhat scary how many of the lack the varactor (labelled "MOV" in the diagram above) that is actually a critically important safety feature of this kind of power supply. \$\endgroup\$– JulesCommented Oct 19, 2017 at 0:16
-
1\$\begingroup\$ @AdamDavis assuming the diode is 12V which would jibe with the series resistor of the LED ~10mA, C1 would be 225nF. That would put ~13.5V on that big electrolytic at that load. \$\endgroup\$– Trevor_GCommented Oct 19, 2017 at 15:54
\$\begingroup\$
\$\endgroup\$
5
The answer is "yes" - but it is dangerous because there is no isolation and component failure can lead to the full voltage and current from the mains appearing at the output. Here is a description
You need to adjust values to get your 5VDC. If you do not know how to do that, stay away from it.
answered Oct 18, 2017 at 14:59
-
3\$\begingroup\$ Downvote because you can't ground the output of one of these supplies! \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 20:09
-
2\$\begingroup\$ @pericynthion he mentioned it's not isolated, so what do you want? \$\endgroup\$– Nick TCommented Oct 18, 2017 at 23:17
-
3\$\begingroup\$ @NickT he probably meant the connection of the (-) rail to the Ground on this circuit is questionable. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 18, 2017 at 23:28
-
1\$\begingroup\$ @NickT Yes. However, the whole thing is questionable. As for tying neutral to earth, that might increase its safety but OTOH it might decrease it if they are not locally tied together nearby on the mains. For one, your circuit breakers might not like it. And if you don't have earth current circuit breakers you risk significant earth current flows. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 19, 2017 at 8:21
-
2\$\begingroup\$ Upvote because the OP said "Is it realistic to use diode bridge followed by capacitor to straighten the ac wave and then use voltage divider to get 5 volts from 240 without actually burning anything up ?" and @Dirk Bruere said "The answer is "yes" - but it is dangerous" which is correct, is it possible, although is dangerous and should be avoided. \$\endgroup\$– mguimaCommented Oct 24, 2017 at 21:45