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LED headlightSchematic## Need capacitor value for below circuit ##

Hi guys,

Kindly help me with the situation below.

I want to run my LED headlamp (with upper & dipper functions) via flywheel magneto.

Current setup: 6v Magneto >> Headlight coil >> Headlight incandescent bulb 12v 35/35w (No regulator/rectifier).

New setup: 6v Magneto >> Headlight coil >> bridge rectifier(KBPC 3510) >> smoothing capacitor (unknown value) >> XL6009 step up booster >>LED headlight (9-30VDC 9 Watt).

Reference data: ->Magneto is of 6v & LED is of 12V. (9 to 30v) ->Magneto keep on changing the voltage as per RPM. ->AC current & frequency is unknown. ->No battery /battery coil is present. ->Full wave bridge rectifier is rated at 35 amps. ->Step up booster is rated at max 4 amps. ->Current withdrawn by LED is unknown.

Please help me to find a suitable smoothing capacitor or to re-arrange the mentioned connections. Any other suggestions are also welcome.

Thanks.

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  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ If you edit your question and click the Schematic icon you can add one to describe your circuit. \$\endgroup\$
    – Dampmaskin
    Commented Aug 19, 2017 at 12:20
  • \$\begingroup\$ Does the LED headlight include a current regulator? From the voltage range, it seems likely. If so, then you just feed it anything in the range and it is happy. But, this is a guess based on the (scanty) information given. Can you post a datasheet for the headlight? \$\endgroup\$
    – JRE
    Commented Aug 19, 2017 at 12:24
  • \$\begingroup\$ sorry, no schematic or datasheet is available.This is for my old vintage motorcycle. Led is having wide voltage range. Can we assume that, it will also have a current regulator inbuilt. \$\endgroup\$
    – Swaps07
    Commented Aug 19, 2017 at 12:30
  • \$\begingroup\$ Please tell which model of motorbike. It's possible it has a single-phase AC generator but not likely. More likely it has either a DC generator or already a 3-phase AC generator. \$\endgroup\$
    – Janka
    Commented Aug 19, 2017 at 19:52
  • \$\begingroup\$ Circuit diagram added. LED light images with specs added. There are two bikes with same issue. Bobby GTS 175 (1972 model 175cc) & another is Kinetic Luna super 70 (2006 model kick start 70cc). I tried replacing tail lamp of Luna with 1 watt red LED in series but it was not glowing instead it was heating. Heatsink was added. Seems it isAC current. Both bikes are without battery charging coil. And both are two stroke. \$\endgroup\$
    – Swaps07
    Commented Aug 20, 2017 at 9:32

2 Answers 2

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I'm not familiar with motorcycle generators, but I'm going to assume the generator runs at engine RPM, which can be anything from 500 to 10000 rpm... Well, your vintage bike probably doesn't go that high, still this is a quite wide range, corresponding to 8-100 Hz. That's approximative.

Now, the capacitor's role is to smooth voltage at low rpm so your light keeps steady.

At 500rpm (8 Hz) the capacitor is charged 8 or 16 times per second, depending on what waveform your magneto generates, of which I have no idea. I'll just go with 10 times per second.

The 9W LED will draw 1A if powered by 9V, a nice round number.

The capacitor's equation is i = C dv/dt

Let's go with: choose a capacitor value such that the i=1A current draw will cause a voltage drop of dv=1V during dt=0.1 second. This results in a 100000µF capacitor, which is impractically large. Try a 10000µF 40V cap first, that will cost you a few bucks.

Now, the voltage is a problem. Your generator will have an open circuit voltage which can be quite high when the light is off. Also, it depends on RPM, and since the wave shape won't be a sine, a multimeter in AC mode won't be helpful.

For example, a "6V 3W" bicycle hub dynamo will happily put out 50V unloaded when speeding downhill. Open circuit voltage is proportional to rpm, so make sure to put the switch BEFORE the capacitor. If you put the switch after the cap, then the cap will charge to the rpm-dependent open circuit voltage, which will most likely exceed 30V, and this will exceed your LEDs's maximum voltage when you close the switch.

Now, you have another problem, which is these crude generators usually work with incandescent lights. So, if you rev up the engine, the generator's power increases, voltage increases a bit, but the light will draw more current, which compensates.

However, a LED with a switchmode electronic driver is different: as input voltage increases, it draws LESS current. In fact it will draw a constant power. If it is a 9W LED, if you give it 9V it will draw 1A, but if you give it 18V it will draw 0.5A.

So, what's going to happen is that when you rev up the engine, voltage will increase, causing the LED to draw less current, which will cause the voltage to increase some more, until the LED blows.

So, first we will determine if the boost converter will be necessary.

You need to connect the rectifier and capacitor to the generator, start the bike, and measure the DC voltage on the cap when the engine is idling. If it is 6V then you'll need the booster. If it is more than 9V, connect the LED.

Now, most likely it will blink because the generator doesn't have enough power at low rpm to supply 9W, and the only fix for this is a LED with a driver which is smart enough to lower its intensity when voltage is too low. Maybe yours does? You should check.

If your LED electronic driver is dumb, it will turn on at full power as soon as it gets 9V, which will cause the voltage to go down, and then it will turn off. A boost converter will not fix this, as the problem in this case is that the generator does not provide enough power at low RPM. The fix is to have a LED which draws less power when input voltage is low.

Next, SLOWLY increase the rpm, and monitor voltage on the cap. Write it down. Don't exceed the LED's maximum.

Most likely you will find that at some rpm which isn't that high, you'll get more than 30V, thus your problem will be to avoid overvoltage, and you will need a shunt regulator to fix this.

So, get a diode bridge, a cap and a multimeter, and when you have measured numbers, you'll have your solution.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ I tested my LED with 9V 300mah rechargeable battery, drawing 20ma on high beam & 25ma on low beam. In India mechanics are suggesting to use a cap 25v 4700uf (if battery is end of life) or 50v 4700 uf (if not present). Can i use latest rectifier/regulator from 12v bikes? Will it regulate 6v to 12v? I'll add a switch before the rectifier.The coil is dedicated for headlight. I was unaware that, LED draws low current at high voltage. Boost converter is rated at 4A max.I want avoid it. I'll check the voltage at engine idling. My LED is rated at 9v-30v DC. Base is same as the normal bulb. \$\endgroup\$
    – Swaps07
    Commented Aug 20, 2017 at 10:22
  • \$\begingroup\$ Since 9V battery gives very little current, it's good news that the LED works with it. So it won't shut down at low rpm, instead it will just get dimmer, which is better. 12V "regulator/rectifier" from a bike should prevent overvoltage at high RPM. \$\endgroup\$
    – bobflux
    Commented Aug 20, 2017 at 11:01
  • \$\begingroup\$ ok. But bike dynamo is of 6v, if i use 12v regulator/rectifier from new bikes, will it glow the LED at low RPM? I am unaware of the input voltage range of 12v regulator/rectifier. Also, please suggest from below capacitors: 25v 4700uf / 50v 4700 uf / 35V 15000uF. \$\endgroup\$
    – Swaps07
    Commented Aug 20, 2017 at 12:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ 4700/25V should do the trick. A "regulator" only rectifies and limits the voltage and prevents overvoltage... it does nothing at low RPM when voltage is too low. \$\endgroup\$
    – bobflux
    Commented Aug 20, 2017 at 14:03
  • \$\begingroup\$ Just tested the LED on 12v DC wall power supply. It is drawing 45ma on high beam & 35 ma current on low beam. \$\endgroup\$
    – Swaps07
    Commented Aug 20, 2017 at 18:57
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Boost specs. https://www.banggood.com/XL6009-Step-Up-Boost-Voltage-Power-Supply-Module-Converter-Regulator-p-916222.html

2.5A max but switch can pulse 4A. 10W max, your LED 9W but unknown efficiency

so booster will run hot, and need heatsink.

Perhaps a better booster.

As far as cap, it depends on requirements of booster for stability and regulation. Normally energy must be stored for several to 10 cycles depending on input f.

E=1/2 CV^2 implies a large cap for 10W* 10/f [Ws].

f is unknown but take guess 50 Hz min. Then you do the math.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Can you suggest any other boost converter? LED efficiency is unknown. How to put heat sink on XL6009, with thermal paste not the thermal adhesive. I have two options 25v 4700uf & 50v 4700 uf. Which one can you suggest? I want to avoid boost converter. \$\endgroup\$
    – Swaps07
    Commented Aug 20, 2017 at 10:26
  • \$\begingroup\$ One more cap i found on internet is 35V 15000uF. now i am confused with these caps. \$\endgroup\$
    – Swaps07
    Commented Aug 20, 2017 at 12:31

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