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I'm asking this question in this way because I don't know any other way to explain what I'm trying to do.

Imagine you have 2 gears, gear A and gear B, gear B is 3 times larger then gear A. So, if gear A rotates one full turn, gear B rotates 1/3 of a turn. gear A is the input and gear B is the output. gear B is divided into 3 parts, 1/3, 2/3, 3/3. the 1/3 part is labels -1, the 2/3 is labeled 0 and the 3/3 part is labeled +1, so in essence I have a gear (B) labeled -1, 0, +1. if we start at -1 and rotate gear A, 3 times, gear B will rotate one full turn from -1 to 0 to +1 then back to -1. So forwards or backwards the sequence is the same.

-1, 0, +1, -1, 0, +1, -1, 0, +1, -1, 0, +1, -1, 0, +1, -1, 0, +1,

the question is, this sequence can be made in gears but can it be made in an electronic version, lets says we used 3 volts, 6 volts and 9 volts. 3 volt is -1, 6 volts is 0 and 9 volts is +1 with only one input and one output. how could we build it so that it starts with a input of 6 volts, 0. if we add 3 volts to the 6 volts, the output would be 9 volts, if we decrease the input now by 3 volts the output would be 6 volts again, decrease the input by another 3 volts and the output is now 3 volts. (I know what your thinking at this point, the outputs are just the inputs - like a straight wire!?)

but here is the kicker, if the output is at 9 volts and we input another +3 volts the output is NOT 12 volts but instead rolls over back to 3 volts, add another +3 volts and the output steps up to 6 volts, just like the gears rolling over from -1, 0, +1. So the sequence would be +3 volts for each step and you would get an output of 3, 6, 9, 3, 6, 9, 3, 6, 9. decrease by -3 volts and you get the reverse, 9, 6, 3, 9, 6, 3, 9, 6, 3

I can across something called a voltage-controlled oscillator, Johnson counter and a ring circuit. but what I'm finding is that these use some kind of pulse generator or something and I'm looking for to just use straight DC voltage only, no pulses or wave forms or the likes. I got this far asking ChatGPT but it's still kind of stupid and although it somewhat understands what I'm looking for it doesn't seen to fully understand.

The purpose of this is it's an idea for a Ternary switch, everything online about ternary seems to fall into two camps, theory about a three state switch and making a three state switch from binary circuits. the issue I see is that most are trying to get the full 3 states, -1 0 +1. and they pass through the 0 to get from -1 or +1, I figure instead of going through 0 we just roll over from +1 to -1 like a gear. I've been working on the balanced ternary number system and this works out perfect. just roll over instead of trying to go back through zero

example:

  1. (+ = +1)
  2. (0 = 0)
  3. (- = -1)

So here is the first 9 digits

 (0 0 0 - = -1)
 (0 0 0 0 = 0)
 (0 0 0 + = 1)
 (0 0 + - = 2)
 (0 0 + 0 = 3)
 (0 0 + + = 4)
 (0 + - - = 5)
 (0 + - 0 = 6)
 (0 + - - = 7)
 (0 + 0 - = 8)
 (0 + 0 0 = 9)

If you look you'll see in the 1s place down the list it goes, from -1 to 0 to +1, -1, 0, +1, -1, 0, +1. in the 3s place its every 3rd that repeats the sequence, in the 9s place it's every 9 that repeats the sequence in the 27s place it's every 27 and on and on.

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2 Answers 2

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What you're asking for is definitely possible... but I'm not sure what you're asking for, so I'll make a list of a few different questions and answers in the hopes that one or more of these will be useful.

Modular arithmetic with voltages

Question: Is it possible to make a circuit that responds to an input voltage according to the rule that the below table demonstrates?

Input 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 ...
Output 3 6 9 3 6 9 3 6 9 ...

Answer: Yes, it is. A microcontroller would probably be the easiest way to implement that. That doesn't sound like it would be very useful, though. And every circuit has a limit to how large a voltage it can accept without breaking, so you'd run into those limits sooner or later.

Jumping from one voltage to another

Question: Is it possible for a voltage to go directly from 1 to -1 without passing through 0?

Answer: No.

Question: How do I solve that problem?

Answer: The fact that you can't go from 1 to -1 without passing through 0 is not a problem. It may cause problems, but it isn't itself a problem.

Question: How do I solve the problems that that fact causes?

Answer: I would need to know what the actual problem is in order to know how to solve it.

Rotating instead of moving back and forth

Question: Is there any way to make an electrical signal with 3 states (call them -1, 0, and 1) which can rotate through those 3 states in one direction without ever going in the opposite direction?

Answer: Yes, but you'll need to use two voltages. If you want to represent those 3 states using two voltages A and B, here's an example of a representation you could use:

Value X Y
-1 high low
0 low any
1 high high

With this system, it's possible to pass from any state to any other state without passing through the third state.

Making a balanced ternary counter

Question: Can I use that system to make a balanced ternary counter?

Answer: Yep! All you need is a device which controls one output signal, changing it according to what the input signal does, like so:

  • If the input changes from 1 to -1, the output moves forwards by 1 (going from 0 to 1, or 1 to -1, or -1 to 0).
  • If the input changes from -1 to 1, the output moves backwards by 1.
  • If the input changes to or from 0, or doesn't change, the output doesn't change.

You can connect any number of these devices together to make a ternary counter with any number of digits.

This circuit would not be very complicated to implement using logic gates. Unfortunately, I don't have the time at the moment to figure out all of the details.

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If I understand you correctly what you describe is known as Balanced ternary system.

What is not clear to me is what you actually want to achieve with it. What exactly is your problem? What is the given input (switch positions? a voltage?, a set of voltages?) and what exactly is your wanted output?

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  • \$\begingroup\$ yes its a balanced ternary system but the issue is that it not easy to make in hardware because of the fact that it's thought you would have to pass through the zero to get from the -1 to the +1, but if it just rolls over from -1 to +1 like the number system does already then we don't need a switch just something that can roll over like a gear. which this can be made with gears and it would work but what would a electronic version of this gear concept look like? \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 18, 2023 at 22:08
  • \$\begingroup\$ Why is the transition of -1 to +1 via 0 a problem? It will be only for a very short time where the state is undefined. \$\endgroup\$
    – Curd
    Commented Feb 18, 2023 at 22:11
  • \$\begingroup\$ because going from -1 to 0 then to +1 is a two step process, if your at -1, you have to switch to a 0 state then switch to the +1 state and then back two steps to get back to -1, but if you go down the list of ternary numbers, you'll see that they don't work that way, the number system goes from -1 to 0 to +1 then to -1 then 0 the +1, it really is not a three position switch, its one position that rotates through three parts. it doesn't go from -1 to 0 to +1 then 0 then -1, or left to right then right to left, from any position -1 or 0 or +1 just going up or down gets you back. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 18, 2023 at 22:19
  • \$\begingroup\$ I understand the difference, but not why it should be a problem. Why is it a problem that it is a "two step process"? Obviously it can not be avoided when the single states (digits) are represented by voltages. It could be avoided if the states are represented by a quantity that is modular in nature, e.g. a phase angle; but why the effort? \$\endgroup\$
    – Curd
    Commented Feb 19, 2023 at 12:13

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