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I work for a transportation company. And we deal with 650-800 V traction power. Mainly to third rail and overhead trolley wire.

We do a test on our underground cable. To basically see if it's becoming grounded, or is a ground. We have lots water problems in our manholes, and have been told that's why we have high results. The test is as follows:

Using an analog volt meter, red lead (+) on known hot 650 V source. Black lead (-) on out of service cable being tested. Usually we like to see 150 V or less. But we will most likely never see close to 0. I've been told that is water in the cable. Some areas we put it back in with 500-600 V results, and it doesn't trip the breaker. However it's not lighting a lamp bank, Which means it's not a good clean ground. (Lamp bank test is bulbs in series, connected same way from hot source to the cable being tested.

What is this test called? We call it a ground test, but I can't find that anywhere?

How come we test, and get 500-600 V to ground but it doesn't short and trip the breaker? Because it's not a clean ground correct? There would be resistance in the path to ground, correct?

How can we then get results of 50, 100, 200 volts to ground. If there's a ground at all, shouldn't it show up as 650 V?

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Yes, resistance, and/or if it is 600 V AC, it could be capacitance. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Aug 1, 2023 at 18:00
  • \$\begingroup\$ What's the resistance of your analogue meter? Or its ohms per volt and what scale are you on? \$\endgroup\$
    – Neil_UK
    Commented Aug 1, 2023 at 18:08
  • \$\begingroup\$ Math, it’s DC sorry. I figure it’s insulation resistance, they just never used a “megger” for it. We use that on our AC distribution cables. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Aug 2, 2023 at 3:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ Neil, Im not sure the resistance. Can I use a fluke 87 on resistance and go across the analogs meters terminals? Scale would be up to 1000V \$\endgroup\$ Commented Aug 2, 2023 at 3:49

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Your analog meter will consume very little current (otherwise it'd get hot) so it only takes a small amount of leakage current to show up as a voltage difference. The lamp box requires a lot more current, so won't light unless the leakage resistance is low, and as for the breaker, it'd basically take a dead short to trip that.

You need to decide what leakage current or resistance is acceptable, then add a load across the meter terminals to put a sensible load on the leaky line; then if a significant voltage still shows up, the line is genuinely leaky.

Obviously with traction power you need to take suitable precautions in terms of insulating the connections to an appropriate standard, making sure the added resistor can handle the power dissipated if the load is connected across the full supply voltage, and protecting against serious injury from arcing if the supply is accidentally short-circuited.

I have worked with traction power on rapid-transit vehicles, and personally I'd strongly advocate using a 'Megger' insulation-tester when the power has been removed, rather than working on 'hot' cables, due to the serious risks involved.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Yes I agree with the lamp bank response. As if the lamp bank glows full brilliance, we can not put a cable back in, as that would trip the breaker, typically. We do not work on hot cables, we just used a hot over head catenary for source (+) lead and the cable being tested for a ground with the (-) lead. It’s just interesting the analog meter will show a lower volt to ground measurement than the fluke 87. Even still doing this, we call it a “ground test”. IE testing the power cable for a ground, if it’s a ground, which it shouldn’t be, as it’s a feeder. Is it a ground test or?? \$\endgroup\$ Commented Aug 2, 2023 at 3:49
  • \$\begingroup\$ I'd call it an insulation test, since you are effectively measuring the resistance between the leaky cable and ground, but I'd certainly use a professional insulation tester (500V or 1000V) in place of the method you describe, then you just need to set an appropriate pass/fail resistance level. For on-vehicle rotary equipment this was typically 2 megohm at 1kV, but I suspect your waterlogged cables might be lower than that. \$\endgroup\$
    – jayben
    Commented Aug 2, 2023 at 10:11
  • \$\begingroup\$ Yea we have them available, fluke 1587, as well as up to 15kv megger, and Hi Pot testers. Those all mainly used on our 4800 and 13.2kv lighting and power cables. Fluke 1587 for testing short runs quickly for faults and for phasing new sections. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Aug 3, 2023 at 0:44
  • \$\begingroup\$ The analog meter we use is professional grade, it is not cheap, it’s just how they have been doing it for a long time for the DC cable. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Aug 3, 2023 at 0:45

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