7
\$\begingroup\$

As the title states, in the rail industry, why are the majority of railway's third line or overhead line in DC volts and not AC volts? My initial guess would be that it is in AC since it is easier to distribute AC over long distances. I do know there are a few overhead lines that are 25KV AC, but the majority are 600-750 V DC.

EDIT: I found this article which explains the difference a little bit, but it still doesn't explain why the majority are DC.

\$\endgroup\$
8
  • \$\begingroup\$ when in doubt consult the great Wiki en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_line \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jun 25, 2013 at 12:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ I know some trolleys run (ran) on DC, something like 500 V if I remember right. However, this is probably highly dependent on the particular trolley system. Which one are you asking about? \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jun 25, 2013 at 12:12
  • \$\begingroup\$ @CamilStaps I am in US, but I found this wiki article en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_electrification_in_Great_Britain which says that most of the railways in Great Britain are DC. \$\endgroup\$
    – Josh
    Commented Jun 25, 2013 at 12:16
  • \$\begingroup\$ @JImDearden I've read that wiki page before, and it doesn't really state why it's DC. \$\endgroup\$
    – Josh
    Commented Jun 25, 2013 at 12:16
  • \$\begingroup\$ @OlinLathrop in the rail industry, the majority (like over 90% I think) have DC third rails or overhead lines. \$\endgroup\$
    – Josh
    Commented Jun 25, 2013 at 12:20

6 Answers 6

9
\$\begingroup\$

Railway infrastructure is expensive. It is relatively rare to create totally new tracks and when you do, they most often conform to the engineering norms of the existing tracks (gauge etc) to allow for flexibility in rolling stock usage etc.

Therefore decisions about electrification were made in the 19th century (e.g. 1890 in London). At that time, speed control of large motors was probably easier for DC than for AC where the speed is linked to AC frequency.

Also at that time DC distribution had advantages over AC.

Subsequent technological revolutions are generally hampered by the need to maximise return on very long term investment in large-scale infrastructure.

An interesting case is London's Thameslink which has trains that operate on overhead 25KV AC for the northern part of the journey and on third-rail 750V DC tracks for the portion of the journey south of Farringdon station. The costs of introducing incompatible infrastructure can be considerable.

\$\endgroup\$
3
  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks RedGritty. I actually read that article on the War of the Currents. I just found it surprising that so many rails used such high DC voltage over high AC voltage. \$\endgroup\$
    – Josh
    Commented Jun 25, 2013 at 15:08
  • \$\begingroup\$ 750V DC on Thameslink is not just for the "central portion", North of london is 25KV AC, south of london (all the way to brighton) is 750V DC. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 19, 2016 at 23:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Peter: Thanks for pointing that out, answer updated accordingly. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 20, 2016 at 21:28
5
\$\begingroup\$

This is actually a very interesting power electronics question; none of the answers have hit all the major points:

Drive Side Perspective

Regardless, we need DC to drive motors

  • Before transistors enabling inverters (Thyristors and IGBTs) were available, the only effective way to achieve highly variable speed was with DC, since AC motor speed is fixed to frequency. Likewise, mercury arc rectifiers were too heavy to be transported on trains so putting the AC => DC conversion there was infeasible.
  • The efficiency of AC motors along with superior mechanical characteristics of induction/brushless motors makes AC at the drive side attractive. However, this requires a Variable Frequency Drive Inverter which must be fed from DC as there is no easy way to change frequency or use power electronics for direct AC-AC conversion.

Therefore, the question is: Where do you put the rectifier?

1. AC Transmission

Rectify AC to DC on the train and use HVAC at 25 kV to get the power to the trains

Pros:

  • Higher transmission line efficiency due to lower current.

Cons:

  • Rectifier must be weight optimized; probably has a lower power factor and efficiency.
  • Single phase rectifier means voltage nulls require power storage elements and efficiency reduction.
  • Rectifier must be transported by the train. Rectifiers for high power use are heavy.

2. DC Transmission

Rectify track-side and use 600V-3kV DC to transmit to trains

Pros:

  • Trains are lighter
  • Rectifieris more efficient, better power factor
  • Three phase rectifier

Cons:

  • Higher transmission line currents mean higher losses

I recall reading about a Russian experiment in the 80s that compared solutions 1 and 2 above and found that despite the losses in the transmission line that the overall system was more efficient with DC transmission due to the power electronics required. Nevertheless, many regional trains and high speed rail do use HVAC.

There are some other considerations:

  • High Voltage AC is not used on third rail systems; requires overhead wire. Safety considerations limit voltages of third rails to ~750V, which also limits the effective power, air conditioning, etc. (Not that you couldn't fry yourself pretty well at that voltage.)
  • It's only practical to transmit one phase (though there are a few examples of three phase trains). DC systems can use three phase rectifiers track-side increasing efficiency.
  • Skin depth limits effectiveness of large diameter AC wires; this is not a problem for DC systems which can use thicker gauge wires to transmit higher currents.

Note that power is not usually transmitted long distance along the track (especially for medium voltage DC): the lines are fed along the way, not just from one end.

\$\endgroup\$
1
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ You actually can convert AC to AC of a different frequency without intermediate DC. There is the SCR or triac -based cycloconverter, and the power transistor -based matrix converter. Granted, they both practically require three phase AC which is unavailable on a train. The rectifier weight is also insignificant compared to the transformer and smoothing capacitor required for adapting the single phase 10+ kV AC supply to the motor. \$\endgroup\$
    – jms
    Commented Feb 19, 2016 at 23:40
4
\$\begingroup\$

The whole of the south eastern end of the UK use the third rail system - it was never used anywhere else in the UK and I believe a major reason was that a lot of this area is urban with low bridges hence a third rail system. DC overhead lines (5kV) were used along an old stretch from Manchester to Sheffield.

DC control is one aspect but there is another and that is induction to track control and telephony systems. An AC third rail would represent a big source of magnetic interference for track signalling and track telephone systems. Originally the signalling and track control was done mechanically so AC wouldn't be a threat so this "reason" is more a 20th century explanation rather than a 19th century one.

However, track-side telephone systems would have been affected by AC from the onset and, because the voltage is lower than overhead AC power feeds, the current would be higher and induction greater. A third rail is much closer to the track-side telephone wires as well making things worse.

As an example, when the UK's east coast mainline was electrified (overhead), engineers reported that telephony problems were occurring on lengths of cable about 1500m to 1700m (1 mile) or greater. For a third rail where the current is probably going to be at least ten times higher than overhead 25kV systems and about one-third the distance from cables you can guess AC just wouldn't work even on short distances.

\$\endgroup\$
2
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ "The whole of the south eastern end of the UK use the third rail system - it was never used anywhere else in the UK". Theres also a couple of lines round north london and the merseyrail system round liverpool. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 20, 2016 at 2:49
  • \$\begingroup\$ @PeterGreen also Manchester-Bury 1200v DC third rail, now part of the Manchester tram system, and also the LNER North and South Tyneside systems around Newcastle now de-electrified. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 8, 2021 at 19:59
1
\$\begingroup\$

HVAC (High Voltage AC) has some disadvantages, like distance, for instance. Although the transmission of AC is easier and widely used to transfer power from home to home, it is not used when there is one long transmission line.

HVDC is better here because there is almost a constant efficiency of transmission along an HVDC cable. The break even point between HVAC and HVDC is around 50km. If you get greater than 50km it will be more beneficial to use HVDC because of price and efficiency.

Here is a graph between HVDC and HVAC comparing price and distance.

Since these trains are going long distances it is better to use HVDC.

Another real life example would be offshore wind farms. Because they are so far offshore they use HVDC and transmit more power on land than they would with HVAC.

Here's an article on offshore wind farms.

\$\endgroup\$
2
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ I don't think this has much relavance to trains. As other answers have pointed out the equipment for HVAC adds considerable weight to trains, the equipment for HVDC would add even more. DC trains operate at relatively low voltages which are low enough for the drive system to use without voltage conversion. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 20, 2016 at 2:39
  • \$\begingroup\$ You also don't say what assumptions are fed into your graph. Underground and undersea cables are typically where HVDC brings the biggest benefit over HVAC but all high voltage train supply systems are overhead for safety reasons. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 20, 2016 at 2:41
0
\$\begingroup\$

Bit late to the party, but a reason to stay with DC (or build new) is regenerative braking. Most electric multiple-unit trains today will reverse the motors to slow down, dumping the generated power back into the supply line. Very easy with DC as all you need to regulate is the voltage. Syncronization nightmare with AC. If the service is busy enough theres always something else running in the same electrical division.

\$\endgroup\$
2
  • \$\begingroup\$ Actually, if one has enough different sets of motor windings that one can change the synchronous speed over an adequate range, a squirrel-cage motor can do regenerative braking just fine when driven faster than its synchronous speed. The biggest issue would probably be the number of coils windings needed for high-end and low-end speed control, since there'd be a 2:1 ratio between the lowest and second-lowest synchronous speeds, as well as between the highest and second-highest. \$\endgroup\$
    – supercat
    Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 19:22
  • \$\begingroup\$ Feeding power back into an AC grid is not as much of a challange as you might think. Sure a dumb rectifier-capacitor circuit can't do it but dumb rectfier-capacitor circuits suck anyway. With modern synchronous converters reversing the direction of power flow just requires some minor tweaks to the control algorithms. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 20, 2016 at 2:33
0
\$\begingroup\$

If we widen our horizont over to the non english speaking area we could conclude this - there seems a multitue of reasons:

In Europe, most all Trains do have overhead lines and they range 3kV, 15kV and 25kV AC - Depends a bit when and who build it. (not counting some alpine local trains which even exist 3 phase!) . On the other hand most if not all Trams in cities do use DC (around 600V).

One reason for higher voltages are more energy transport. This is true for railway trains, as they use up to Mega Wats when starting or sprinting. Thus 25kV will need less Amperes and thus less metal - an over head line could be used instead of a third rail. But why then AC. Because at that time only AC could handle higher voltages due to the existence of transformators. DC gave big problems.

Looking at a third rail, what distance to the ground would you need to carry 25kV in it. Quickly it seems not very practical. Therefore rather use 500-750V only.

But still many trams and subway trains in the cities (Zürich, Berlin, München, Wien, ..) do use 600V. So why is this? This goes back to the very early days, when only DC motors were available/thinkable. (Actually speed regulation was done by big switchable resistor arrays on the roofs). Still you needed more than 110V on the line as there was in the grid to power that bigger coach. So they decided for a bigger voltage extra produced for that purpose. Later Mercury steam rectifiers were used. But 600V is still handle able. But you need big switches with wider distance to kill the switch off arc. This is also the reason why not to use DC with more than 1kV easily.

Looking at the origins of the train system in DE,CH,AT,SE and Norway which is 15kV 16,7Hz (fun stuff): this has it's origin from a train line built between Innsbruck (AT) and Garmisch Patenkirchen (DE). They chose electricity because only so they could climb the steep mountains up. At the time technology had few choices. The best motor of choice with the best efficiency was 16,7 Hz and about 15kV were good for transmission of the necessary wattage. That has then persisted until now. In fact in the mentioned countries there is a whole extra network for train power transmission. It uses 110kV or 65kV (CH) for wide range transport.

That may give you an impression about the reasons why stuff was chosen back then.

\$\endgroup\$

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.