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Can we saturate the BJT in emitter follower configuration by increasing base current? If yes, what happens in the process? How does increase in collector current decrease \$V_{CE}\$ when there is no resistor to drop voltage between source and collector ?

Similarly, how do you saturate an optocoupler in the same configuration? (TRCT5000 for example)

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    \$\begingroup\$ In order to saturate e.g. an npn transistor you generally need to pull the base to a higher potential than the collector and in common emitter config the collector is usually at the power rail. I.e. you need to arrange either another, higher power rail or a charge pump of sorts. This is why one does not usually deal with saturated bjt in common emitter context. \$\endgroup\$
    – fraxinus
    Commented Oct 29 at 6:06
  • \$\begingroup\$ @fraxinus I think you mean common collector \$\endgroup\$
    – Andy aka
    Commented Oct 29 at 8:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Andyaka yes, pretty much \$\endgroup\$
    – fraxinus
    Commented Oct 29 at 9:30
  • \$\begingroup\$ Fix your comment to avoid confusion is my recommendation \$\endgroup\$
    – Andy aka
    Commented Oct 29 at 9:36

2 Answers 2

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Can we saturate the BJT in emitter follower configuration by increasing base current?

You can if (assuming you are using an NPN BJT) you can pull the base voltage above the collector voltage. This is usually undesirable. If you did this in a emitter follower it would mean you are essentially just using the transistor b-e junction as a diode, and not achieving the impedance transformation that is typically desired from an emitter follower.

How does increase in collector current decrease VCE when there is no resistor to drop voltage between source and collector ?

If there is no resistor to drop the voltage, then the transistor won't saturate (until the base voltage is taken above the supply voltage).

how do you saturate an optocoupler in the same configuration?

You could do it by starving the collector of current, for example by connecting a resistor between the power supply and the collector.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Possible to saturate with emitter resistor alone? I have posted the similar question before and it was mentioned that increasing \$I_c\$ can cause voltage drop across emitter resistor and there by decreasing Vce - I could not really comprehend this. \$\endgroup\$
    – Theja
    Commented Oct 29 at 6:16
  • \$\begingroup\$ @ Theja - could it be that your question arises from your (false) assumption that the BJT would be a current-controlled device? \$\endgroup\$
    – LvW
    Commented Oct 29 at 8:04
  • \$\begingroup\$ I assume BJT is CC device \$\endgroup\$
    – Theja
    Commented Oct 29 at 8:26
  • \$\begingroup\$ @ Theja - for many calculations you can use the BJT model based on current control. However, when you are trying to understand the working principles of a BJT you should remember the "physical truth": Ic is controlled by Vbe only. In case of saturation this means: The increase in Ib is NOT the CAUSE but the RESULT of saturation. \$\endgroup\$
    – LvW
    Commented Oct 29 at 10:20
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Theja An emitter resistor is only going to cause saturation if its presence somehow pushes the base voltage up to equal or above the collector voltage. Share the specific circuit you have in mind and we can be more specific. \$\endgroup\$
    – The Photon
    Commented Oct 29 at 17:07
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The transistor base is driven by connecting it to a circuit which somehow generates a voltage between the base and the emitter. Diffusion and electric field inside the transistor (due the short distances) cause that most of the current generated by the base-emitter input voltage is caught by the collector and only a small base current occurs - assuming there's voltage Vce higher than the saturation limit. This phenomenon, where most of the current is caught by another terminal clashes with our everyday impression how electricity works, but that's caused only by the fact that generally wires and insulation layers are much thicker than the average length of thermal random movements of electrons.

The remainder of the current caused by Vbe i.e. the base current is a fraction of the collector current when there's enough Vce. The inverse of that fraction is called current gain. That easily is interpreted as "BJT is driven by base current". That's not wrong when we want to have a simple thinking model for our circuit design calculations. Current gain is much easier to remember and to use in math than the complex non-linear voltage-current- equations of PN-junctions. But essentially we must cause a voltage between the base and the emitter to drive the transistor.

Emitter follower amp circuit has a feedback, which reduces the voltage which actually drives the transistor. Vbe = Vin - Ve. As said by others you can beat the effect of the feedback and cause the transistor to saturate by connecting to the base higher voltage than Vcc. That limits how much the collector current can lift the emitter voltage Ve.

Emitter followers which have Vin > Vcc may have some usage, but as buffer amp it's not useful.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Saturating Normal BJT and an optoisolator are same? \$\endgroup\$
    – Theja
    Commented Oct 29 at 9:25
  • \$\begingroup\$ Phototransistor is trickier than a normal BJT, because the light causes leak in the BC junction. Explanations for hobbyists say that "the transistor is driven by the photocurrent which is amplified by the normal transistor current gain". I see this is quite as good explanation as early explanations for vision which say that the eye emits "sensing rays". BJT saturation effect cannot be transferred to the operation explanations of phototransistors as is. \$\endgroup\$
    – user828022
    Commented Oct 29 at 10:00
  • \$\begingroup\$ Could you explain how do you saturate a Optocoupler like a TRCT5000? \$\endgroup\$
    – Theja
    Commented Oct 29 at 10:06
  • \$\begingroup\$ See fig.7 in Vishays datasheet for TRCT5000 vishay.com/docs/83760/tcrt5000.pdf The curves hint that using the device in a circuit which offers lower voltage than 0.5 volts to the phototransistor cause the transistor to operate in the range where Vce affects much Ic. In BJT transistor usage practice we call that Vce range saturation region. Normal optoisolator usage which connects the phototransistor through a load resistor to +5VDC doesn't make it and even when Vce is below 0.5V the light intensity affects much to Ic. It definitely is different than saturating a BJT. \$\endgroup\$
    – user828022
    Commented Oct 29 at 22:36

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